What kind of training would you like to have?

[YammyMonkey]

Gary, I was thinking about doing something similar someday, out in the boonies so-to-speak, providing lodging, meals, range access & a variety of training courses. I think providing the food is a great idea because it will give the studs & instructors time to socialize & pick each other's brains in a less formal/more comfortable setting. I would also consider putting together some sort of survival course. Sounds like you'll have the terrain & natural resources available. Even if things never get so bad that we're all living off the land, being able to do so not only makes you more appreciative of what you have, but also more comfortable when all the modern conveniences aren't at your fingertips.

As for gun-specific training it sounds like force on force is the big thing. Only so much you can learn from a stationary target as opposed to a moving, thinking, shooting, stabbing, punching, kicking opponent.

 

[Gary Brommeland]

Yammymonkey,

Thank you for an excellent post. I've had a couple of folks mention outdoor survival training to me. I thought it was kinda beyond the scope of what we are gonna do here, but I might just be wrong about that.

I want this school to be seen as professional, ethical and comprehensive - something with a high degree of credibility. I don't want to be seen as a "survalist" or "Rambo" type facility.

However, we are living in pretty unstable times and it is highly possible that a major natural disaster (ie Katrina, or the "Big One" hitting California) or a man made terrorist event (WMD in a major ciy) could displace several million people at once. There is no way that the FEMA folks could handle something like that, and you'd pretty much be on your own for weeks, or even months. Given how populations tend to degenerate to the "lowest common denominator" in a hurry, that is nothing short of a nightmare scenario. Regular defensive handgun training would be helpful, but inadequate under such circumstances. "Urban Carbine" and/or "Tactical Shotgun" courses would seem much more beneficial.

Having said all that, would you guys want to see "preparedness" training as well?

 

[1911 guy]

My ideal training session.

Not necessarily in order of importance.

Recognizing threats.
Conflict avoidance.
Discussion of mindset.
Use of cover and concealment.
Situational awareness.
Gunhandling skills (non-shooting, malf's, etc.)
shooting while moving.
after shooting needs. Lawyer, how to deal with cops, where to seek counseling, etc.
handgun retention
self administered first aid
holster and garment choices for concealment
non-lethals such as mace, kubotan, etc.
knife

Just some random thoughts.

 

[YammyMonkey]

Gary,

I think the basic stuff like how to improvise shelter & first aid, get clean water, improvised navigation, how not to get lost in the first place would be the best bet. Obviously mixing guns & wilderness survival training could make some look sideways at you but as long as the course descriptions were clear it should be a non-issue.

A lot of that could be applied to urban disasters. If someone knows how to construct a lean-to out of a tarp & knocked down tree they should be able to improvise shelter if they have standard building materials. Same goes for clean water, first aid, nav & non-motorized travel.

Would also be nice to have a "how to fix yourself" class that deals with gunshots, stab wounds, etc. in more of an every-day-person perspective including what you may want to keep on hand just in case.

 

[jeepmor]

I would like all the options mentioned available. I like camping and would probably pick that route for a lower budget. However, the bunks and cottages are still a great idea also. If you have the room, start with your camping facilities, add a bunkhouse for the hostel like effect, and a cottage or two for families/parties that want more privacy/luxury/convenience and the end of the day.

If there is room, you can offer packages that accommodate all budgets. As popularity and clientele increase, cashflow should put you in a position to move up to just bunks and cottages. The clientele will dictate which is the best approach for you in multi-season planning.

A simple feedback card that is in each "package" will provide the pointed feedback that will point you to the specific avenue to pursue to maximize your investment. Giving the customer what they want never hurts. Let the customers decide your directions your business goes with their wallets. More wallets open this way in my opinion.

 

[Gocart]

I'd suggest two types of classes. Sponsor a Basic Fighting Pistol class for those who have never had any formal training, even those who've "been shooting all their lives."

Follow that up with a Force on Force class. Nothing teaches students how quickly and unpredictably lethal force scenarios unfold like well-done FoF classes.

I also recommend that you investigate and consider hosting Tactical Response from Camden for either or both of these classes. David Blinder is excellent as well.

Re lodging - most students I've trained with would require at least a bunkhouse with restroom and shower facilities. Generally, those with disposable income to spend on tuition and ammo will not be content roughing it in tents.

 

[vasilia zheitseva]

gary,

thanks for the thoughtful reply - You sound like the kind of instructor I need to learn from - not there are'nt a lot of other fine instructors out there; I just have'nt had the free time to do so for quite a while. I am on a travelling schedule at work this year, but I will be getting fairly good blocks of time off with the compensation. PM me when you get it setup, ok?

also, note on facilities. I don't mind camping in summer & early fall, but with no 4 wheel drive or truck, getting up a mountain is a problem. being female, I'd surely appreciate the aforementioned bunkhouse with hot showers and meals. (sly grin) ...heck , after you get established, you even could do one of those high-end yuppified phoo-phoo gourmet & gun weekends...

 

[peacemaker45]

Re: Training; A good basic pistolcraft course would seem to be the foundation upon which the rest of the school would hang. Preferably one focused toward the CCW'er. It seems that many defensive principles remain the same between CCW, LE, etc, but a good many do not, either. A LEO isn't supposed to run away, a CCWer is. That sort of basic mindset. With the number of folks that use a shotgun for home defense, a good practical shotgun course would also be invaluable. (So long as you don't require the SG to be black and tacticool. My '97 might not like that.)

Re: Lodging; As long as there are showers available, I'd be happy. Tent, bunkhouse, whatever. I doubt I'd spring for a cottage. I'd be more likely to invest the savings in more ammo, but hey, that's just me.

Re: Heinlein; Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark. ---- Lazarus Long

~~~Mat

 

[Gordon]

My idea of serious training:
California Training Expedition
April 1-7, 2006
Modesto, CA

Jim Cirillo
“If the history of gunfighters would ever be written, Jim Cirillo would be up there with Wild Bill Hickok, Wyatt Earp, and Bat Masterson.” -- Massad Ayoob

· Modern-Day Gunfighter/Instructor
· NYPD Stakeout Squad Top Guns (Involved in 17 Gunfights!)
· 15 years teaching at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center
· Taught US Marshals, Border Patrol, and other High Risk LEO’s
· Author of Secrets of a Master Gunfighter, Jim Cirillo: Modern Day Gunfighter, and Guns, Bullets & Gunfights

Louis Awerbuck
“Anyone signing up for training with Louis Awerbuck has made a very wise choice. He is a certified master of the art.” -- Col. Jeff Cooper

· President and Director of the Yavapai Firearms Academy
· Former Chief Rangemaster for Gunsite Firearms Academy under Col. Jeff Cooper
· Author of Defensive Shotgun, Hit or Myth, Tactical Reality, Only Hits Count
· 30 years Defensive Firearms Training with Military, Law Enforcement, & Civilian Clients
· Contributing Editor for SWAT magazine
· Member, IALEFI (Int’l Assoc. of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors), ASLET (American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers, ILEETA (Int’l Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers Assoc.), and NTOA (National Tactical Officers Assoc.)

Sheriff Ken Campbell
“I consider Ken to be a great American, a proficient and highly competent instructor and a motivated and professional cop.” -- Pat Rogers (SWAT Magazine)

· Newly-elected Boone County Sheriff, Central Indiana, Over 25 Years Law Enforcement Experience
· Special Response Team Commander & Chief Rangemaster
· Recipient of community’s “Police Officer of the Year” and “Medal of Valor”
· Adjunct Instructor for the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy for courses including: Firearms Instructor, Patrol Carbine Instructor, Shotgun Instructor and Precision Rifle.
· Instructor Certification in several less-lethal applications including Oleoresin of Capsicum, Sage International, Taser and others.
· Affiliated with Gunsite Academy Inc. since 1990

California Training Expedition
(cont)

This unique, custom-tailored course offers firearms training by some of the most highly respected instructors in the industry. Bridging the gap between one of the best-known first-generation combat shooters and leading instructors of the next generation, this course aims to show that the more things change, the more they stay the same…

This “advanced” course assumes the student is capable of performing all the basic gunhandling, marksmanship, and tactics drills taught in rigorous shotgun and pistol courses On Demand, including shooting on the move, weapon retention shooting, a weak-hand drawstroke, and weapon transitions with two pistols.

After a brief review, this course continues with exploring one’s close-range weapon potential in an enclosed environment such as a car or home. Emphasis will be placed on close-range tactics with both the shotgun and handgun (close-range shooting, increased speed, takeaways, weapon retention, one-handed manipulation and operation, back-up weapon transition) Stakeout Setup and Staging, alternative aiming methods, handgun ergonomics, impaired vision drills, and downed/injured defender survival will be explored. Vehicular shooting, moving target systems (Enhanced Mirage, Chargers, Laterals), and dim-light/nighttime shooting will continue to challenge the student. Beginning with Col. Cooper’s Color Codes, the course will emphasize problem solving with situational assessment, verbal skills, and de-escalation techniques that may warrant a no-shoot situation. This will culminate in a series of training scenarios with Airsoft weaponry, potentially force-on-force, or non-firing verbal de-escalation.

Prerequisites: Training from specific recognized instructors (or approved equivalent) in Shotgun and Handgun are ABSOLUTE prerequisites for this course.

Bonus Presentations:

John Jardine
· Chief Engineer and Designer of the Valtro 1998A1 .45 ACP Pistol
· Custom Gunsmith/Gunbuilder
Mr. Jardine will discuss the ramifications of common gunsmithing repairs/customizations, good and bad, on handguns and tactical long guns. His experience in both the manufacturing and customizing of firearms are invaluable for the serious gunfighter who must have a gun that will go “bang” everytime.

Tommy Gong
· Certified Instructor under Ted Wong in Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kune Do
· Student of the late Sonny Umpad, Visayan Style Philippine Martial Arts
· Student of Small Arms Training
Mr. Gong is one of the least-known “martial artists” in the world, and he likes to stay “low-key.” He will hopefully be able to show you how to use your knife without stabbing or cutting yourself! No prerequisite required…

April 1-7, 2007 (Sun Afternoon – Sat Noon)
Modesto, California
Cost: $1000/person
Course: Close Quarters Tactics/Problem Solving
Ammo Requirements: 1000 Handgun
300 Birdshot, 100 Buckshot, 100 Slugs
Mandatory Back-Up Gun & Gear (300 Rounds)
Airsoft Weaponry and Safety Equipment
Rubber Training Knife (Optional Folder Trainer)
Live Edged Weapon (Fixed and/or Folder)

Limited Enrollment Available!! First Come, First Served.

Please sign up early: Registration Deadline February 28, 2007
For more information: Check out YFA’s Website: http://www.yfainc.com
Email Tommy Gong for Information:
[email protected]

YFA, ITTS, or AWT (Walt Marshall) Stage 1 Pistol and Shotgun Courses are highly recommended prerequisites for this course, since it is assumed that the student is capable of performing all typical exercises in these courses ON DEMAND.


YFA, LTD.
APPLICATION FOR TRAINING

1. Please reserve ________________ space(s) for me in California Training Expedition

Date: April 1 - 7, 2007 (Sun Aft-Sat Noon) Location: Modesto, California

2. I enclose my deposit of $300.00 per space. I will pay the balance of my tuition upon registration. (Please make checks payable to YAVAPAI FIREARMS ACADEMY, LTD.) I understand that if I must cancel out of a class I will receive a full refund if I give at least 30 days notice. If I give less than 30 days notice I will forfeit my deposit, or it will be held by YFA as deposit for a future class.

3. I agree to abide meticulously by all safety procedures required of me and I understand that my instruction may be terminated at any time during the course if I fail to cooperate with safety requirements. I further agree to sign a statement releasing YAVAPAI FIREARMS ACADEMY, LTD. from responsibility for any injury I may sustain during the training program.

4. I agree to sign a sworn statement that I have never been convicted of any crime, at any time, in any jurisdiction.

5. In signing this application, I certify that I will be at least 18 years of age at the time of the class, or will be accompanied by my parent or legal guardian.

NAME (Please print) _________________________________________________________________

Address___________________________________________________________________________

City _____________________________________ State ______________ Zip ___________________

Daytime Telephone _______________________ EMAIL ____________________________________

Enclosed is my deposit of $ __________

Prerequisite Classes Taken: ___________________________________________________________

__________________________________________________________________________________

__________________________________________________________________________________


Make, model and caliber of weapons you plan to bring ______________________________________

__________________________________________________________________________________


Signature ___________________________________________________________________

Please send completed application to and deposit payable to Yavapai Firearms Academy, Ltd. to:

Tommy Gong
6195 Via Huerto Court
Atascadero, CA 93422

 

[Gary Brommeland]

Thanks again for the input.

Gordon, that looks like a superb training seminar. However, our focus is to include everyone - first time shooters, small statured females, housewives and little old ladies, as well as the lean, mean young meateaters. That's why we are asking for input - so we can match the right instructor(s) up with the right curriculum for the group of students in question. That way, everyone (regardless of skill level) is working at a challenging, but not impossible pace and learning as they go. We want each student to have the opportunity to maximize their potential.
Louie Awerbach is one of the instructors that I have attempted to contact. Jim Cirillo is another one whom I hope to get onboard. However, it will take a couple of "remedial" courses before the average 40 yr old mother of three will be ready for such a class.
In short, our focus is to be all all inclusive training facility for everyone - not just the young studs.

 

[Dionysusigma]

I wouldn't mind seeing something like this: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=248304

... especially since nobody offers a specific Bolt-Action Battle Rifle class anywhere.

Training on cheap milsurps, especially when they're as cheap as they are now, might prove to be invaluable to those who cannot afford a high-dollar AR. The designs are proven and intended for heavy combat; although most are from an age from before medium-power "assault rifles," they can still be effective if used properly. Thing is, since they don't fire as fast as a semi, people think they're outdated and obsolete... which, IMO, is simply dumb. SASS shooters and Mountain Men have proven this quite well.

Thing is, I've had a Yugo M48 Mauser for over a year now. I know how to work the bolt, how to aim it, and how to disassemble it. However, I have no confidence that I could use it in an effective manner if faced with any sort of less-than-idea situation. I'd like to amend that problem.

If what all these ol'-timers are telling me is correct, these weapons are capable of more than punching holes in paper at 50 yards and collecting dust.