so what makes a 1911 so accurate, i'm sure its not just one part but a all the parts work to. i was looking at the springfield 1911 a1. wanted to know with some patietence and time and some money if it could be made into some thing like a kimber or higher springfields? would it be as good not just look the same
what makes a 1911 so accurate
- Thread starter tiko_joe
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1911NM
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I do believe you are right, it's all parts working together. However, I always feel you can boil it down to the nicest SA trigger around. I have heard very little negative about the Springfield platform. Would probably be a good base for whatever you like. That's part of what's fun with 1911's. As long as you have a good platform, there are tons, upon tons of aftermarket parts you can modify with. My bottom of the line Kimber, I carry daily and shoot competition with. What mods I have made still fit within both what's common sense for daily carry, and what fits within USPSA guidelines for single stack, ie., not much other than sights and springs. My quick advise would be to grab that Springer, shoot the snot out of it, then decide what, if any, changes you want.
what makes a 1911 so accurate ?
The guy/gal holding the gun on target. He or She has lots of shots down range and knows the gun well enough to hit the target time after time.
Lots of options on the 1911 is one thing that makes it so great. Get one shoot lots and make what changes you want after learning and seeing what others have done. That was one of the things that was enjoyable for me when I first got a 1911 was shooting with others and seeing all the options and info that people are willing to share.
You could always go high end and be set for life ,but its not near as much fun as building one up to fit you and one does not have to have the big bucks all at once.
The guy/gal holding the gun on target. He or She has lots of shots down range and knows the gun well enough to hit the target time after time.
Lots of options on the 1911 is one thing that makes it so great. Get one shoot lots and make what changes you want after learning and seeing what others have done. That was one of the things that was enjoyable for me when I first got a 1911 was shooting with others and seeing all the options and info that people are willing to share.
You could always go high end and be set for life ,but its not near as much fun as building one up to fit you and one does not have to have the big bucks all at once.
AZAndy
Member
Tiko, I did just that-- got an SA 1911 GI and then added stuff. So far, I've put sights (Novak fiber optic), hammer, beavertail, extended slide stop, extended thumb safety, Pearce grips w/finger grooves, extractor, and a flat mainspring housing (snakeskin) on it. It would have been cheaper to have just bought a fancier one to start with, but then I wouldn't have had the fun I got to have.
As to accuracy, I don't find the thing to be all that great at any distance over ten yards. Might be time for me to think about a match barrel/bushing kit. ;-)
Something to think about: Lurper let me shoot his Taurus 1911 when I did a session with him, and I was really impressed with it. For around $600, it's already got most of the stuff I like, right out of the box. 'Course, I didn't know what-all I wanted on the gun before I got mine...
As to accuracy, I don't find the thing to be all that great at any distance over ten yards. Might be time for me to think about a match barrel/bushing kit. ;-)
Something to think about: Lurper let me shoot his Taurus 1911 when I did a session with him, and I was really impressed with it. For around $600, it's already got most of the stuff I like, right out of the box. 'Course, I didn't know what-all I wanted on the gun before I got mine...
Any 1911 can made to be very accurate. It has alot to do with the frame to slide fit, along with the bushing to barrel and bushing to slide fit.
I would put an springfield right up there with any other 1911 make on the market. It doesn't have the "sex appeal" of a Kimber or other higher end production gun, but they are fantastic guns.
I recommend one of the stainless loaded guns. With very little work they will beat any kimber out there. One of the fist things I recommend on the springfields is a new Main Spring Housing. Get rid of that crappy lock system and get a checkered MSH for $40
If you want to go a little nuts, Kart barrel $150, Bushing $30, gunsmith to fit the barrel $100ish. But in reality you don't need to do that.
I would put an springfield right up there with any other 1911 make on the market. It doesn't have the "sex appeal" of a Kimber or other higher end production gun, but they are fantastic guns.
I recommend one of the stainless loaded guns. With very little work they will beat any kimber out there. One of the fist things I recommend on the springfields is a new Main Spring Housing. Get rid of that crappy lock system and get a checkered MSH for $40
If you want to go a little nuts, Kart barrel $150, Bushing $30, gunsmith to fit the barrel $100ish. But in reality you don't need to do that.
The fit of the barrel to the bushing, or to the slide in a bushingless slide and the rear of the barrel's lugs locking properly into the lugs of the slide are what generally make the 1911 a decently accurate gun, in most cases right out of the box. Yes, a decent trigger and the shooters ability play a key role in the accuracy, but so do these areas of anchorage, preventing barrel movement and aiding in the repeatability of that accuracy. I have seen a lot of shooters that will settle for the gun shooting fairly tight groups, out of the bullseye and instead of adjusting their sights, when they can, and just try to compensate by sighting the gun the same distance in the opposite directon. Most rear sights, even the non adjustable fixed sights, can be adjusted for windage as can some front sights when dovetailed mounted. Front sights can also be replace to adjust for elevation.
Another issue to contend with is the ammunition being shot. If a shooter only tries the ammunition they have on hand or is suggested by another shooter, or even one that may shoot to target quality in another gun, they are not really giving the gun a chance to show what kind of accuracy is obtainable with the correct brand or even bullet size. Try everything you can get your hands on and shoot which ever gives repeatable accuracy to the levels you are comfortable with, or meets your needs.
bigmike45
Another issue to contend with is the ammunition being shot. If a shooter only tries the ammunition they have on hand or is suggested by another shooter, or even one that may shoot to target quality in another gun, they are not really giving the gun a chance to show what kind of accuracy is obtainable with the correct brand or even bullet size. Try everything you can get your hands on and shoot which ever gives repeatable accuracy to the levels you are comfortable with, or meets your needs.
bigmike45
possum
Member
many custom 1911 smiths use springfield base model 1911's to work with and create some very fine 1911's.
accuracy i believe comes from several factors, shooters ability, ammo, but that is outside the relm of the gun itself, you need a good trigger that breaks crisp, good sights that allow you to maximise the accuracy. i normally shoot most accurate with three dot sights. you need a good barrel to slide fit, as well as bushing fit, locking lugs etc, already described above. i am sure there are other things here and there i am no expert but that is from what i understand.
accuracy i believe comes from several factors, shooters ability, ammo, but that is outside the relm of the gun itself, you need a good trigger that breaks crisp, good sights that allow you to maximise the accuracy. i normally shoot most accurate with three dot sights. you need a good barrel to slide fit, as well as bushing fit, locking lugs etc, already described above. i am sure there are other things here and there i am no expert but that is from what i understand.
Technosavant
Member
That's it, isn't it? When you get into the 1911, you can go for one of the "loaded" type guns (be it SA, Taurus, or whatever), but you're never quite sure exactly what YOU want on a 1911. It takes owning one for a bit before you fully realize the value (or lack thereof) of many of the upgrades.
You know, I think this is worth another thread....
Big Boomer
Member
Don't you know?!? JMB was instructed by GOD himself to build it!
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Jerry Kuhnhausen, in his 1911 Shop Manual says:
Mechanical Accuracy Features: (repeatable lock-up):
20% eliminate rear barrel play.
20% consistent vertical lug lock-up.
20% barrel / slide bushing fit.
15% frame / slide play.
10% match grade barrel.
10% headspace.
5% unreachable.
Shooter Assisting Features:
50% good trigger.
25% good sights.
25% Misc., like good ammo, grips, etc.
Very few other guns are as tunable for accuracy because of design constraints.
rcmodel
Mechanical Accuracy Features: (repeatable lock-up):
20% eliminate rear barrel play.
20% consistent vertical lug lock-up.
20% barrel / slide bushing fit.
15% frame / slide play.
10% match grade barrel.
10% headspace.
5% unreachable.
Shooter Assisting Features:
50% good trigger.
25% good sights.
25% Misc., like good ammo, grips, etc.
Very few other guns are as tunable for accuracy because of design constraints.
rcmodel
jad0110
Member
As for mechanical accuracy, your typical, average every day 1911 is probably no more or less accurate than many other platforms out there. There are however tons of after market parts available for them and a relatively large industry devoted to making them super accurate.
I submit that they are accurate because they are such natural pointers, for many people. Those user friendly ergonomics make them easy to shoot, even if the trigger isn't quite right.
I submit that they are accurate because they are such natural pointers, for many people. Those user friendly ergonomics make them easy to shoot, even if the trigger isn't quite right.
MCgunner
Member
I've had two and neither was particularly accurate. But, then, I guess accuracy is relative.
dstorm1911
Member
The #1 reason for the 1911s accuracy? The skill level of the person holding it. These days everyone and their brother in law want a 1911 because its the gun prefered by the pro's....... I can hand a fully tricked out, air gauge fitted Caspian race gun to someone who has never held a handgun and that person will not get any better accuracy than they will from an off the rack police trade in S&W mod 10 .38 SPL. but I can hand that MOD 10 to a well trained competitive shooter and he will make it run like a tricked out 1911.......
forget adding anything, instead focus on practice and ammo for that practice.... I have yet to find a modern 1911 that is not capable of 2" or better right out of the box provided consistent ammo is used, and in the hands of a skilled shooter who understands proper grip and trigger control....... the old Military issued 1911s were built to much looser tolerances and by the time they were replaced were rebuilt several times over they required slide/frame tightening, oversize bushings etc.... to make an accurate gun out of one, By contrast even the cheapest 1911 clone today is made to much more consistent tolerances, once you have 2-3" consistently at 25 yards then start looking at all the current fad mods and goodies once you have enough actual experience with the 1911 to actually discover what YOU need to change. Otherwise its no different than the 16 year old kid about to get a drivers license already reading every hot rod mag he can to find out how to turn dads old Chevy into a Nascar ready race car..... or at least make it look like one..
Unless your competing in IPSC or IDPA competition you will never have any use for 85% of what folks do to or ad to a 1911 so they can try to mimic the race guns...... just my opinion based on 30 years of building 1911s for carry as well as competion. the gun will not make you a master shooter.. only proper practice can do that. Use the $$ you will save on gimicks to hire a real instructor as most people already have embedded technique errors that they will only repeat more with more practice unless those faults are singled out and eliminated.... people tend to blame equipment (as with a couple posts above) rather than look at the reality of the fault being with them..... proper training will do you much more good than any changes in the gun.
forget adding anything, instead focus on practice and ammo for that practice.... I have yet to find a modern 1911 that is not capable of 2" or better right out of the box provided consistent ammo is used, and in the hands of a skilled shooter who understands proper grip and trigger control....... the old Military issued 1911s were built to much looser tolerances and by the time they were replaced were rebuilt several times over they required slide/frame tightening, oversize bushings etc.... to make an accurate gun out of one, By contrast even the cheapest 1911 clone today is made to much more consistent tolerances, once you have 2-3" consistently at 25 yards then start looking at all the current fad mods and goodies once you have enough actual experience with the 1911 to actually discover what YOU need to change. Otherwise its no different than the 16 year old kid about to get a drivers license already reading every hot rod mag he can to find out how to turn dads old Chevy into a Nascar ready race car..... or at least make it look like one..
Unless your competing in IPSC or IDPA competition you will never have any use for 85% of what folks do to or ad to a 1911 so they can try to mimic the race guns...... just my opinion based on 30 years of building 1911s for carry as well as competion. the gun will not make you a master shooter.. only proper practice can do that. Use the $$ you will save on gimicks to hire a real instructor as most people already have embedded technique errors that they will only repeat more with more practice unless those faults are singled out and eliminated.... people tend to blame equipment (as with a couple posts above) rather than look at the reality of the fault being with them..... proper training will do you much more good than any changes in the gun.
Thanks for all the info......I do agree with the majority of you that said "accuracy begins with the individual, not the gun". I really am looking to just find a good beginners 1911. I dont wont all the extra's, because quite frankly i still dont understand what the hell alot of them do. I just want a good beginners platform that has room to grow once I understand what different things do and understand the 1911 in my hands. I would love to go threw some training course but the ones here in UTAH tend to be alittle pricy and alls everyone wants is cwp or sniper training, the military only trains on m9's. So for now i just read alot about it and watch that outdoor channel on tv when they have their shooting shows to try and learn as much about proper technique.
XDKingslayer
member
I disagree. Accuracy doesn't begin with the individual. Accuracy begins with the weapon. The most innaccurate weapon in the world won't shoot well with even the best shooter behind it.
Get an accurate weapon, then become an accurate shooter. But you can't accomplish that with a pistol that shoots worse groups than a shotgun.
Get an accurate weapon, then become an accurate shooter. But you can't accomplish that with a pistol that shoots worse groups than a shotgun.
granted but if the barrel is straight, the firing pin is good, and the trigger aint rusted over, a well trained individual will be able to shoot the fire arm better than a first timer. to some one who has beginning capabilities a $2000 1911 with all the bells and whistles will shoot the same as $700 1911 with just the essantials. I picked up my buddies S&W 1911PD at 20 feet i put a half dollar size hole in the paper, then I picked up a Kimber TLE and did the same but you could see round six and seven. Both a descent chunk of change but Iwas able to shoot them about them same and i couldn't really see or feel a difference, due to my lack expierence. Now I shoot my Ruger P94 at 15 yds and get about a 2-3" grouping. My wife picks up the fire arm and gets 6 shots on paper out of ten, no real grouping. So like I said same weapon two different shooters with different expierence levels from first time shooting a pistol to beginniner level.
XDKingslayer
member
Thank you for solidifying my point.
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