What makes the Striker 12 a DD and not a SBS?

[jojo200517]

The title of the thread pretty much is the question I have. Why is the striker 12 (aka street sweeper) a destructive device and not a short barrel shotgun.

The one I am referencing is the on on gunbroker now http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=251243635

Just looking it over this one has a 18.5 inch barrel, overall length with the stock unfolded is listed at 31.5 inches. 23.62 inches folded. I was thinking all measurements of overall length with collapsible or folding stocks were taken with it fully extended or unfolded.

Even if this is not the case it seems that it violates the overall length requirement and this seems that it would classify it as a SBS, since it wouldn't have an overall length of 26 inches AND a barrel length of 18 inches.

So what makes it a DD and not a SBS??? :banghead:

 

[MasterSergeantA]

It was specifically called out as such (as was the USAS-12) by ATF opinion. BATF-E Rulings 94-1 and 94-2 declared the Street Sweeper (as well as the poor Stryker-12) "Destructive Devices" since they "failed" the "sporting purposes" clause.

Under the '68 GCA, the BATF-E claims the right to decide, on behalf of all Americans, what is and isn't "sporting."

With a barrel length of >18" and OAL of >26" it would NOT be a SBS. (And federal law measures with the stock extended...some states. like California, don't.) Even if the barrel and/or OAL dropped below the listed lengths, it would still be a DD because that trumps SBS status. Keep in mind that some states permit DDs but not SBSs or AOWs and vice versa. It pays to know what your state/municipality allows.

 

[jojo200517]

I wondered if it had something to do with "sporting purpose". It seems like it may be an ok kinda gun for 3gun or something since a lot of people are using saiga's.

Of course I recall somewhere someone said that just because a firearm was used for sport shooting didn't mean it had "sporting purpose" :banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Strykervet]

Simple answer: your government. There is no logic behind it being an NFA weapon as opposed to a regular shotgun. The Saiga is probably a fiercer weapon, I don't know though, not a big shotgunner.

At the very least, a semi auto 20 round shotgun is a semi auto 20 round shotgun no matter what you call it. The antis just got their way with this one, and the streetsweeper.

 

[MasterSergeantA]

Strykervet nailed it. I think if the Saiga had been available with the 20-round drum magazine during the Brady Bunch's hand wringing and wailing prior to '94, it would have become a DD as well. Even now, if the Russians had shipped them WITH a pistol grip instead of without, they probably wouldn't have made it to this shore.

BTW, Strykervet, were you in 25th Div?

 

[Quiet]

Federal law [18 USC 921(a)(4)(B)] says 12gauge & bigger bore shotguns are automatically DDs, unless the US Attorney General finds they are suitable for sporting purpose.



18 USC 921
(a) As used in this chapter—
(4) The term “destructive device” means—
(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter

 

[TexasRifleman]

Of course I recall somewhere someone said that just because a firearm was used for sport shooting didn't mean it had "sporting purpose"

This has been their "interpretation" of the law for a while now sadly. So basically "sporting purpose" means whatever they want it to mean, not what any normal English speaking person would take it to mean.

Further, both studies concluded that the scope of “sporting purposes” did not include all lawful activity, but was limited to traditional sports such as hunting, skeet shooting, and trap shooting. This effectively narrowed the universe of firearms considered by each study because a larger number of firearms are “particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to a sporting purpose” if plinking4 and police or military-style practical shooting competitions are also included as a “sporting purpose.”5

In particular, the working group examined participation in and popularity of practical shooting events as governed by formal rules, such as those of the United States Practical Shooting Association (USPSA) and International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC), to determine whether it was appropriate to consider these events a “sporting purpose” under § 925(d)(3). While the number of members reported for USPSA is similar to the membership for other shotgun shooting organizations,6 the working group ultimately determined that it was not appropriate to use this shotgun study to determine whether practical shooting is “sporting” under § 925(d)(3). A change in ATF’s position on practical shooting has potential implications for rifle and handgun classifications as well. Therefore, the working group believes that a more thorough and complete assessment is necessary before ATF can consider practical shooting as a generally recognized sporting purpose.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf

 

[Carl N. Brown]

There is no logic to the Striker (a shotgun on the revolver principle) being a NFA DD (destructive device) along with cannon, bombs and rocket launchers, rather than a shotgun, other than Clinton-Era "Assault Weapon Ban" politics. It is a clumsy, bulky curiosity piece of a shotgun.

I don't consider it a good weapon. I would personally opt for a Rem 870, Moss 500 or Ithaca 37 in brush gun, riotgun or Deerslayer configuation. Banning it with the designation "Destructive Device" might fit the technical definition of a badly written law (even Frank Zimring considers the 1968 GCA badly written). The lack of logic and clarity in the federal gun control laws appears calculated to instill fear, uncertainty and doubt amongst those of us who try to abide by it, whether that is a deliberate intent or not.

ATF on the 1994 rulings: "The USAS-12, Striker 12, and Streetsweeper shotguns were classified as destructive devices pursuant to section 5845(f) because they are shotguns with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter which are not generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes..."

Well, if you take self-defense (Heller '08 MacDonald '10) seriously, or civilian marksmanship training for potential voluntary or conscript military service seriously, the "sporting purpose" clause is very limiting and not justified by a strict reading of the Second Amendment or the majority of state RKBA clauses.

 

[shep854]

The stroke of a pen. Back during the "Assault Rifle" debate hysteria of '94, some pol saw the then-popular StreetSweeper and it scared him.

 

[RickP]

I've always seen the Street Sweeper as a home defense weapon. In a true defensive situation,12 ga. speaks well,and in the case of the S/S,it is capable of repeating itself.

 

[jojo200517]

This has been their "interpretation" of the law for a while now sadly. So basically "sporting purpose" means whatever they want it to mean, not what any normal English speaking person would take it to mean.

Seems like they like making it up as they go? Not to bash but this seems to have became quiet typical behavior for the good old ATF.

I've always seen the Street Sweeper as a home defense weapon. In a true defensive situation,12 ga. speaks well,and in the case of the S/S,it is capable of repeating itself.

You know it just might be, if it wasn't listed as a DD i'm sure we'd AT LEAST see half as many threads on whether to use it for home defense as we do currently on remington 870's mossberg 500's or any other gun.

I do kinda wonder if they are decently reliable weapons. I have read thru the wiki article one them and it seems they underwent some revision and improvement from the first ones that came out.

Then I clicked combat shotguns and looked at more shotguns that the politicians decided are too "evil looking" or whatever for us common folk to have such as the SPAS12 and SPAS15.

 

[Messenger Guard]

The Spas was definitely evil looking. I would be killed just trying to learn the manual of arms to operate the thing. I had two and never truly mastered either but it was a conversation piece. Glad I matured to only things that work and work simply.