What powder is used in WWB 147gr?

[aquapong]

I want to make a load equivalent to Win 147gr JHP's. I normally use Win 231 for pistol, but in this case I'm willing to stock another kind of powder if that's what I need to do to make my suppressor set up work. I broke open a factory Win 147gr round and the powder looks like 231, only smaller in scale. I'm betting it's 571, 540, or WAP. It doesn't seem like it would be WSF because according to one manual the amount would be way above the limit. This is, of course, assuming they use their own powder. Whatever it is, the charge is 5.3gr. Anyone have any ideas? 231 on the left, unknown on the right.

 

[NCsmitty]

You cannot "guess" about what powder a factory load contains. It could be a proprietary powder not normally available to reloaders. The best you can do is chrono a factory load and try to duplicate with available components. Your picture shows that they are not the same powder.

NCsmitty

 

[Cougfan2]

It looks like 231, but there is no way to tell. Repeat after me. Read the Manual. Read the Manual. Read the Manual................

 

[ReloaderFred]

Here we go again.......

Ammunition companies use "bulk" powders that aren't available to handloaders, who use "canister" powders. Bulk powder loads are worked up for each lot of powder in ballistics labs. Canister powders are blended to fall within certain burn parameters for each brand of powder.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Cougfan2]

ReloaderFred has it right. That's why bench rest shooters will work up a load only using the same lot of powder. If that lot goes away, the recalculate their loads with a new lot.

 

[ar10]

From Speer Reloading manual V Page 27
"Factories often use a propellant that is specially blended. (referred to as a non-canister grade powder) propellant that they usually won't identify. Never try to identify a powder by its appearance! This can be extremely dangerous. Every year we hear tales of shooters who tried to duplicated a factory load by using the same charge weight of the powder they thought they had identified, only to damage their guns or injure themselves. Stick to the loads in recognized manuals."

 

[RPCVYemen]

A friend who investigated this pretty thoroughly told me that this is the way it works:

1. Powder manufacturer brews up a load of powder, trying to acheive the burn rate, pressure, etc for a particular "canister" power they sell - for example Titegroup.
2. Powder manufacturer tests batch of powder to see if it matches canister powder specs.
3. If powder meets canister specs, sell by pound to reloaders.
4. If powder does not meet canister specs, sell by ton to ammo manufacturer.
5. Ammo manufacturer buy tons of powder - mostly concerned about price.
6. Ammo manufacturer tests each batch of powder to determine its characteristics.
7. Ammo manufacturer blends various powders empirically - a little of this and a little of that, until load matches ammo specs.

I think he knew what he was talking about. He's a tenured professor, so it's hard to tell.

At any rate, using canister powder in loads specified in published reloading manuals make sense.

What you are seeing could be a W 231 powder that was off spec - so they used a different amount. The ammo manufacturer guarantees ballistics, and can dink around with off spec powders until they get it.

Mike

 

[Jim Watson]

I am with Mike. "Special blending" is largely an advertising term. The powder mill sells what comes off the production line. I don't know how much blending the loader does, there is a good deal of flexibility in the load data.

An early Handloader's Digest had an explanation from Hercules. They grade Red Dot into nine burn rate categories, Red Dot 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90. Cannister powder is Red Dot 30. The others go to the factories. Maybe Alliant does it different now.

I would just load the +P charge of 231 and not agonize over it.

They might load their 147s with something else next month anyhow. There was an article in a gunzine about that. A PD got in a new batch of duty ammo and found it had a dazzling muzzle flash they had not seen before. They pulled some old and new bullets and found the previous order from the same company was not loaded with the same powder as the new stuff. The ammo company said it meets the SAAMI pressure limit and gives the velocity the department specified. But the agency didn't say anything about muzzle flash in their purchase order so they were free to use a powder that just happened to flash. Just what they had on hand or could get cheapest.