What WON'T you carry and why?

This guy thinks that Glock s are the bottom tier of guns. I've noticed that many people think that and I wonder where the hell did they get this information from. YouTube maybe. Or do they just believe **** talkers that only like 1911 next to HK? Glocks are the most robust guns in the world. The polymer that is used is patented and The formula is kept secret by Glock. Every gun manufacturer in the world will start using that polymer if that patent gets released. And the metal parts are of the utmost highest quality possible on guns. If a 1911 was built with Glock quality metal, it will cost nearly $5,000 and it would be indestructible.

Seems to me that 1911s are already indestructible!

BUT...personal opinions are as good a reason as any for what not to carry. I won't own a Glock, much less carry one, simply because I think they're ugly as sin. With all the other perfectly good options out there, I don't see any reason why I should own/carry an ugly gun.

Doesn't bother me if other people want to own/carry Glocks. Their quality is indisputable, and therefore make for an excellent choice.
 
This guy thinks that Glock s are the bottom tier of guns.
Please, leave what I said in the context that I said it in. I never implied that Glocks were the bottom teir of all handguns. I never stated that they weren't great and highly reliable handguns either. I would have zero issues using one if I had to defend my life. The first handgun I ever fired was a Glock. The first handgun I purchased was a Glock. I currently own a G43 and 17.4. I have since had a plethora of experiences with other platforms, and I currently own dozens of handguns from different manufacturers. I'm only speaking from my personal experience.

That said, I think they are in the bottom teir compared to other very reliable and vetted duty grade competition. Glock has the advantage in the aftermarket, which may matter to some. The thing is, I only need a holster and sights, and the competition typically has aftermarket options for both. That's just my perspective, and I am sure that other have their own opinions.

I also disagree with the notion that Glocks are the most robust handguns in the world. I believe in this day and age that there are many opinions that are just as reliable.
 
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Just when I had hopes that this 15 month-long thread wouldn't turn into a Taurus, Kimber, Colt or 1911 bash-fest, people want to start up one...

I have seen probably 40% of the Taurus automatic have to go back to the factory.

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Really? 40% of a sample size of how many? I'm gonna have to raise the flag on this hyperbole. That's an extreme figure by any measure, and certainly doesn't jibe at all with the information out there.

he polymer that is used is patented and The formula is kept secret by Glock. Every gun manufacturer in the world will start using that polymer if that patent gets released.
Boy, I really needed a good belly-laugh this morning.

Someone just mixed up a fresh pitcher of Kool-Aid. "The fanboy is strong with this one."

But, I don't think anyone offers forth any useful information when they start injecting subjective opinions of specific brands into the mix.

We're better served talking about calibers, ballistics, ammunition choices, barrel lengths, size/weight combinations, and platforms (i.e., revolver vs. semi-auto).
 
But, I don't think anyone offers forth any useful information when they start injecting subjective opinions of specific brands into the mix.

We're better served talking about calibers, ballistics, ammunition choices, barrel lengths, size/weight combinations, and platforms (i.e., revolver vs. semi-auto).

Yes, please!

I don't mind subjective opinion, so long as it's clearly stated as such.

Like my opinion about esthetics and Glocks. Clearly my opinion about an otherwise excellent firearm, and only expected to apply to me.

"I will not carry a firearm without a manual safety" is another example of a personal opinion some people have, perfectly valid as far as that goes for the purpose of this thread.
 
"I will not carry a firearm without a manual safety" is another example of a personal opinion some people have, perfectly valid as far as that goes for the purpose of this thread.
Good point, forgot to include that in my post -- the safety vs. no safety argument is probably one of the top two or three when it comes to this sort of discussion.

Unfortunately, that too often devolves into arguments where folks start characterizing those who favor manual safeties as perhaps lacking in confidence, experience or ability to prevent negligent discharge(s). Or say things like, "Under stress, you'll forget/be unable to manipulate the manual safety and that will get you killed on the streets." Even more ridiculous that those who postulate they won't carry a Colt revolver for defensive purposes, because it's take them to long to reload with the "backwards" cylinder release.

We sometimes seem to end up arguing mostly about the hardware we use, and not often enough about training and weapons maintenance. Even a $3000 Wilson will malfunction is not maintained properly while a $300 Taurus can be 100% reliable.
strikers.jpg
 
Just when I had hopes that this 15 month-long thread wouldn't turn into a Taurus, Kimber, Colt or 1911 bash-fest, people want to start up one...



View attachment 1206584

Really? 40% of a sample size of how many? I'm gonna have to raise the flag on this hyperbole. That's an extreme figure by any measure, and certainly doesn't jibe at all with the information out there.


Boy, I really needed a good belly-laugh this morning.

Someone just mixed up a fresh pitcher of Kool-Aid. "The fanboy is strong with this one."

But, I don't think anyone offers forth any useful information when they start injecting subjective opinions of specific brands into the mix.

We're better served talking about calibers, ballistics, ammunition choices, barrel lengths, size/weight combinations, and platforms (i.e., revolver vs. semi-auto).



You can call anything you want personally probably 20-25 that friends have bought . 100% of the 2 I've had have been back to the factory. My daughter and and 2 coworkers have Taurus automatics now that are only reliable with better self defense rounds and jam with target ammo
I guess there is a silver lining to that mass shooter here locally a few years back bought a G2 and cheap target loads a friend who is an police officer that was there said they were able to stop the threat fairly quickly because he was trying to clear a jam



Just to be clear I don't have a bad thing to say about Taurus revolvers ,the one I had was a fantastic gun and I have never seen one with issues
 
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You can call anything you want personally probably 20-25 that friends have bought . 100% of the 2 I've had have been back to the factory. My daughter and and 2 coworkers have Taurus automatics now that are only reliable with better self defense rounds and jam with target ammo
I guess there is a silver lining to that mass shooter here locally a few years back bought a G2 and cheap target loads a friend who is an police officer that was there said they were able to stop the threat fairly quickly because he was trying to clear a jam
I'll never carry a Taurus. I've had 4 Kel-Tecs that were 100% reliable, though.
 
I'll never carry a Taurus. I've had 4 Kel-Tecs that were 100% reliable, though.
The problem with the constant bringing up of brands is that everyone's experience is different.

Do not construe this post as a defense of any particular brand.

I'm not sure where everyone lives that witnesses so many abject cases of mediocrity and malfunctioning among only certain manufacturers (perhaps all the guns that shouldn't have passed a company's QC process get shipped to certain regions?).

But I'm a member of three gun clubs here, shoot at a couple more commercial ranges, have shot at many more in the past 50 years in California, Michigan, Arizona and Washington, while working as a certified firearms instructor for an employer with a big staff of personnel. So I feel as though I've seen every brand of handgun in the world (well, except for a Korth) brought to the ranges, shown off, been great or failed a lot, while having the chance to T&E numerous big name brands and a couple little one.

The guns that I see fail the most (in terms of malfunctions) are almost always those owned by novice shooters or otherwise, folks that don't know how to maintain and ensure reliability of a fairly simple mechanical device. Often, any production semi-auto that jams often right out of the box, can be made reliable via some simple fixes that don't require particular gunsmithing skills.

As far as guns that break or shouldn't have left the factory, I've witnessed guns from every major production maker break or be completely unreliable.

Like I said, everyone's experience is different. I've had two Kel-Tecs that were the biggest POSs of any firearms I've ever owned, hence swore off the brand completely. And my experiences with Ruger semi-autos (dating back to the old P85/89/94 series through the newer LCP/LC9) has been almost all negative, whereas my experiences with Taurus have been positive, as have my experiences with Kimbers and Colts, two other commonly trashed brands on the internet.

I especially take comments such as, "I'll never carry XXXXXX (brand)" with a grain of salt, especially when no reason is provided or followed by remarks touting another brand.
 
i'll not be carrying a bazooka, flame-thrower, smooth-bore musket...oh wait you meant handguns?
Well now that is different. Everything I have in that department is fairly large framed and not really viable.
Looks like it will be a whistle, OC spray, or a sock full of silver dollars for me. Lol.
 
But, I don't think anyone offers forth any useful information when they start injecting subjective opinions of specific brands into the mix.

We're better served talking about calibers, ballistics, ammunition choices, barrel lengths, size/weight combinations, and platforms (i.e., revolver vs. semi-auto).
Lol, I guess you missed all the caliber, capacity, size, weight, DA/SA vs. striker fired, thumb safety vs. none, and semiauto vs. revolver holy wars on gun forums???

There's no issue with saying brand names. The issue is that some are triggered by others' experience and preferences. I personally don't care if someone refuses to carry one manufacturer over the other because of first and credible secondhandinformation. The only issue I see is when someone members make unfounded and ridiculous claims. I've only seen 2 members do that so far.
 
The problem with the constant bringing up of brands is that everyone's experience is different.

Do not construe this post as a defense of any particular brand.

I'm not sure where everyone lives that witnesses so many abject cases of mediocrity and malfunctioning among only certain manufacturers (perhaps all the guns that shouldn't have passed a company's QC process get shipped to certain regions?).

But I'm a member of three gun clubs here, shoot at a couple more commercial ranges, have shot at many more in the past 50 years in California, Michigan, Arizona and Washington, while working as a certified firearms instructor for an employer with a big staff of personnel. So I feel as though I've seen every brand of handgun in the world (well, except for a Korth) brought to the ranges, shown off, been great or failed a lot, while having the chance to T&E numerous big name brands and a couple little one.

The guns that I see fail the most (in terms of malfunctions) are almost always those owned by novice shooters or otherwise, folks that don't know how to maintain and ensure reliability of a fairly simple mechanical device. Often, any production semi-auto that jams often right out of the box, can be made reliable via some simple fixes that don't require particular gunsmithing skills.

As far as guns that break or shouldn't have left the factory, I've witnessed guns from every major production maker break or be completely unreliable.

Like I said, everyone's experience is different. I've had two Kel-Tecs that were the biggest POSs of any firearms I've ever owned, hence swore off the brand completely. And my experiences with Ruger semi-autos (dating back to the old P85/89/94 series through the newer LCP/LC9) has been almost all negative, whereas my experiences with Taurus have been positive, as have my experiences with Kimbers and Colts, two other commonly trashed brands on the internet.

I especially take comments such as, "I'll never carry XXXXXX (brand)" with a grain of salt, especially when no reason is provided or followed by remarks touting another brand.
That's my indirect way of saying the same thing.
 
Won't carry for defensive purposes Humm, anything starting with a 2, not carrying anything without being a very reputable brand with the particular handgun having been around long enough to have the bugs fleshed out. No single actions, nothing smaller than 9mm, and no Itty bitty tiny little just make you feel good gun either.. needs to be similar to a G 19 in size. Won't carry one without tritium sights, and no longer bbl than 4-4.5 inches. No extended add on gizmos either.
Your mileage may vary.
 
greta-how-dare-you.gif
That little gremlin makes me cringe.
 
Seems to me that 1911s are already indestructible!

BUT...personal opinions are as good a reason as any for what not to carry. I won't own a Glock, much less carry one, simply because I think they're ugly as sin. With all the other perfectly good options out there, I don't see any reason why I should own/carry an ugly gun.

Doesn't bother me if other people want to own/carry Glocks. Their quality is indisputable, and therefore make for an excellent choice.
I kind of agree with RetiredUSNChief, life is too short to own an ugly gun.I'd carry just about anything that shoots more than once and isn't big and cumbersome.
 
On the subject of handguns that I DON'T have, I wouldn't carry a pistol without a manual safety.
we are certainly in different camps on this point. Other than my 1911 in condition one I won’t carry a pistol *with* a manual safety.
The second or two taken up fumbling with a manual safety could easily be all the difference, no matter how you practice things happen.
 
I won’t carry my much-loved S&W Model 58, because its parts started getting a bit too loose, about 1990. It had served as my duty revolver, from 1985 until 1990, and, before I bought it, it had been a San Antonio PD duty revolver. I also finally realized that N-Frame revolvers are just a bit too large for my hands to hold correctly, while getting enough finger on the trigger, for double-action shooting, so, I tended to grip them improperly, which is a BAD idea when firing powerful ammunition.

My lesson about weapons that are too large for my hands is why I won’t carry a number of excellent, quality weapons that I admire. Beretta 92/M9, for example. Until the slimmer trigger was an option for SIG P226/P229 pistols, they did not fit me, either. The palms of my hands are large enough for me to enjoy the “feel” of such pistols, but my fingers are relatively short, for the size of my hands.

I won’t carry a Kimber product. I bought three Kimber 1911 pistols. All three required too much tinkering and parts replacement, for me to ever want to go through that experience again. I could only trust one of them to function well enough for street duty, and it insisted upon one specific aftermarket magazine. Another insisted upon being fed only from another, different brand of aftermarket magazine. The best thing those Kimbers did for me was that I learned to reflexively clear malfunctions. Meanwhile, my two Colt Government Model pistols ran well, as did my Les Baer, so, “user error” was factored-out. So, Kimber was three up, three down, over a five-year trial period, 1997 to 2002. Sorry, Kimber, you’re out. Too many other good 1911 manufacturers.

I won’t carry .40 pistols, anymore. The only one I still have, a SIG P229, is simply retired, after being my duty pistol for eleven years. I have simply aged-out of wanting to shoot .40 S&W. When my then-chief OK’ed 9mm duty pistols, in late 2015, I transitioned to a 9mm Glock Gen4 G17, a more “orthopedic” pistol, for aging hands. Modern 9mm duty ammo seems to get the job done as well as .40 S&W. When .40 S&W first appeared on the market, I liked the concept. At that time, it was difficult to get high-performing 9mm ammo. Notably, in appropriate pistols, the gentler-accelerating .45 ACP still works well, for me. I still like shooting my all-steel, full-sized 1911 pistols.

Speaking of Glock, I won’t carry pre-Gen3 Glocks, due to the way they fit, and prefer Gen4 and later, except that Short Frame Glocks, which are Gen3, fit me well.

I generally won’t carry pistols that are too small for me to quickly grip reliably, at the outset of the draw. Plenty of the slim-line compact nines, for example, are just not for me. Conceal-ability is just one part of the equation, when choosing a carry gun, and slimness is just one aspect of conceal-ability. A weapon that will “fill your hand” can be important.

I won’t carry a pistol that has a safety that requires my thumb to hunt for the thing. I started handgunning with a 1911, in late 1982 or early 1983, so, became habituated to finding the safety. I found the slide-mounted safety/de-cocker levers of the classic Walthers, old-school S&W, Beretta 92/M9, etc., to be quite workable and intuitive, in spite of the different movement required. Actually, there is a way to use one’s thumb in a way that will smoothly off-safe both the 1911 and the Walter/S&W/Beretta systems, rather than “sweep,” upward or downward, the thumb pushes forward, in a way that will move a 1911‘s lever downward, and the slide-mounted lever upward. if I recall correctly, Massad Ayoob wrote about this method, a very long time ago. It works.

What pistols have safety levers that do not work for me? Well, to start, some of the miniaturized 1911-ish pistols, such as the Colt Mustang, and its SIG and other design derivatives. While they operate, in principle, like that of a full-sized 1911, such tiny weapons‘ safeties are positioned in a way that my thumb does not readily “find” the little things. Most of the afterthought-like safety levers on striker-fired autos, such as the S&W M&P series, for example, are placed in a way that my habituated thumb motion/position does not “find“ them, either. I could, probably, adapt to some of these pistols, but, ammo just costs too much, on my retiree income.

Well, this is getting a bit long. Enough, for now.
 
I won’t carry my much-loved S&W Model 58, because its parts started getting a bit too loose, about 1990. It had served as my duty revolver, from 1985 until 1990, and, before I bought it, it had been a San Antonio PD duty revolver. I also finally realized that N-Frame revolvers are just a bit too large for my hands to hold correctly, while getting enough finger on the trigger, for double-action shooting, so, I tended to grip them improperly, which is a BAD idea when firing powerful ammunition.

My lesson about weapons that are too large for my hands is why I won’t carry a number of excellent, quality weapons that I admire. Beretta 92/M9, for example. Until the slimmer trigger was an option for SIG P226/P229 pistols, they did not fit me, either. The palms of my hands are large enough for me to enjoy the “feel” of such pistols, but my fingers are relatively short, for the size of my hands.

I won’t carry a Kimber product. I bought three Kimber 1911 pistols. All three required too much tinkering and parts replacement, for me to ever want to go through that experience again. I could only trust one of them to function well enough for street duty, and it insisted upon one specific aftermarket magazine. Another insisted upon being fed only from another, different brand of aftermarket magazine. The best thing those Kimbers did for me was that I learned to reflexively clear malfunctions. Meanwhile, my two Colt Government Model pistols ran well, as did my Les Baer, so, “user error” was factored-out. So, Kimber was three up, three down, over a five-year trial period, 1997 to 2002. Sorry, Kimber, you’re out. Too many other good 1911 manufacturers.

I won’t carry .40 pistols, anymore. The only one I still have, a SIG P229, is simply retired, after being my duty pistol for eleven years. I have simply aged-out of wanting to shoot .40 S&W. When my then-chief OK’ed 9mm duty pistols, in late 2015, I transitioned to a 9mm Glock Gen4 G17, a more “orthopedic” pistol, for aging hands. Modern 9mm duty ammo seems to get the job done as well as .40 S&W. When .40 S&W first appeared on the market, I liked the concept. At that time, it was difficult to get high-performing 9mm ammo. Notably, in appropriate pistols, the gentler-accelerating .45 ACP still works well, for me. I still like shooting my all-steel, full-sized 1911 pistols.

Speaking of Glock, I won’t carry pre-Gen3 Glocks, due to the way they fit, and prefer Gen4 and later, except that Short Frame Glocks, which are Gen3, fit me well.

I generally won’t carry pistols that are too small for me to quickly grip reliably, at the outset of the draw. Plenty of the slim-line compact nines, for example, are just not for me. Conceal-ability is just one part of the equation, when choosing a carry gun, and slimness is just one aspect of conceal-ability. A weapon that will “fill your hand” can be important.

I won’t carry a pistol that has a safety that requires my thumb to hunt for the thing. I started handgunning with a 1911, in late 1982 or early 1983, so, became habituated to finding the safety. I found the slide-mounted safety/de-cocker levers of the classic Walthers, old-school S&W, Beretta 92/M9, etc., to be quite workable and intuitive, in spite of the different movement required. Actually, there is a way to use one’s thumb in a way that will smoothly off-safe both the 1911 and the Walter/S&W/Beretta systems, rather than “sweep,” upward or downward, the thumb pushes forward, in a way that will move a 1911‘s lever downward, and the slide-mounted lever upward. if I recall correctly, Massad Ayoob wrote about this method, a very long time ago. It works.

What pistols have safety levers that do not work for me? Well, to start, some of the miniaturized 1911-ish pistols, such as the Colt Mustang, and its SIG and other design derivatives. While they operate, in principle, like that of a full-sized 1911, such tiny weapons‘ safeties are positioned in a way that my thumb does not readily “find” the little things. Most of the afterthought-like safety levers on striker-fired autos, such as the S&W M&P series, for example, are placed in a way that my habituated thumb motion/position does not “find“ them, either. I could, probably, adapt to some of these pistols, but, ammo just costs too much, on my retiree income.

Well, this is getting a bit long. Enough, for now.
Well written and thought out! Without bashing anything!
Thanks
 
What personal or practical reasons do you have to NOT carry any particular handgun for self defense?
Personally, and only for self defense or military use, I'd not choose any caliber less than 9mm; which has the distinct advantage of easy access to well tested ammunition and a universal acceptance in LEO circles. Pistols of all varieties are available to suit most any taste from Micros to duty size.

For the guns themselves, I'd prefer Sigs over say S&W's or Springfields. Beyond those choices, there are undoubtedly some cheaper buys, but my confidence lies with the three makes listed. Forced to choose one, and for defensive use only, it would be a Sig P365, closely followed Springfields new SA-35. Both are as close to 100% reliable as is mechanically possible in the examples I own. Both carry outstanding sighting arrangements & are superbly accurate in their carry roles as well. Beyond these two, all other Pistols are distant 2nd choices.

I do carry revolvers from time to time and depending on the venue they range from S&W's M-60 3" in town to a Smith M-69 in back country environs. I don't feel under-gunned with either. With almost 60 years of handling them in a variety of environments, I trust in their simplicity of operation and long use brings them to hand easily. Too, they offer a larger variety of bullet types and velocity choices to suit the occasion.

As I've never delved into the 'worst' of any particular manufacturer's offerings, I'll not comment further. Best Regards, Rod
 
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