rogdigity
Member
Well, what would you do?? I ask because I'm having trouble with inter ordnance over a pps43-c that fires when the safety is on. Its getting ridiculous.
What would you do - i.o. inc pistol fired with the safety on?
- Thread starter rogdigity
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moxie
Member
Very patiently work with them on the phone, carefully explain what happened.
Speedo66
Member
They're in denial. You scared the crap out of them when you said that, their legal team is ramping up to address any potential lawsuits as we speak. 
rogdigity
Member
Well, here's the elaboration...
Back story: bought a pps43-c in 7.62x25mm. Found it fired in safe mode. Sent it back to inter ordnance and they agreed to replace it. They even swapped it to a 9x19mm version. Got the 9mm one out l the box AT THE LOCAL FFL who was doing the transfer and tested. The new one (unfired) would also release the hammer with the safety on. Sent back to I.o. again. I.o. claims it functions fine. They agreed to upgrade me to an AK at an additional fee but didn't disclose said fee. I asked. I asked. I asked some more... Filed a BBB complaint. Next day I.o. sends me an offer and I send them a cashiers check for the difference. Nothing. Send an email and the csm says he got the BBB complaint a d backs out of the deal. Sends back my check. Assures me my pps works fine. Get me pps back and test. Pps fires with the safety on....
I took videos along the way:
First video showing my first pps43-c in 7.62x25:
Pps43c firing in safe mode: http://youtu.be/O3oBXMlj0DA
Second video shows the replacement I received which was chambered for 9x19mm:
New pps43c firing with safety on: New pps43c firing with safety on - YouTube
The third video actually came from I.o. inc with an email telling.me how the safety is supposed to be used... Oddly enough it doesn't show the safety being used. It only shows it firing:
My pps43-c test fired at I.o. inc: My pps43-c test fired at I.o. inc - YouTube
The fourth video is myself doing a live fire demo (shot yesterday) for the guys at I.o.:
I.O.inc Pps43-c firing with safety on: I.O.inc Pps43-c firing with safety on - YouTube
The fifth video is of the pps43-c AFTER live fire demo yesterday. This was to show the damage to the firearm from it firing in safe mode:
Aftermath of the pps43-c firing w/ safety engaged: Aftermath of the pps43-c firing w/ safety engaged - YouTube
I have posted extensively on texasguntalk.
I have posted a review with info detailing the safety issue on gunboards.
I have posted on the firing line forum about this problem warning about the issue
I have posted to a firearm specific pps43 forum on weaponeer forums.
To be fair, I.o. did agree to give me less than I paid for the gun as credit (which I understood to be a true credit which I could use as I pleased). They then cornered me on an AK-47 they have called the model m214. After receiving the cashiers check they got the BBB complaint and backed out of the deal. I'm still debating a second BBB complaint for backing out of our agreed deal (agreed verbally via phone and later in emails).
I have forwarded pics and video and info to the BBB. They have not made a ruling. I sent Uli Wiegand an email yesterday asking for a resolution to repair or replace but haven't heard back from him yet.
I received an email from their cust service manager a couple days ago basically saying they would buy it back from me for $299.95. That price is unacceptable so I replied to the owner (Uli) with the repair/replace offer.
Back story: bought a pps43-c in 7.62x25mm. Found it fired in safe mode. Sent it back to inter ordnance and they agreed to replace it. They even swapped it to a 9x19mm version. Got the 9mm one out l the box AT THE LOCAL FFL who was doing the transfer and tested. The new one (unfired) would also release the hammer with the safety on. Sent back to I.o. again. I.o. claims it functions fine. They agreed to upgrade me to an AK at an additional fee but didn't disclose said fee. I asked. I asked. I asked some more... Filed a BBB complaint. Next day I.o. sends me an offer and I send them a cashiers check for the difference. Nothing. Send an email and the csm says he got the BBB complaint a d backs out of the deal. Sends back my check. Assures me my pps works fine. Get me pps back and test. Pps fires with the safety on....
I took videos along the way:
First video showing my first pps43-c in 7.62x25:
Pps43c firing in safe mode: http://youtu.be/O3oBXMlj0DA
Second video shows the replacement I received which was chambered for 9x19mm:
New pps43c firing with safety on: New pps43c firing with safety on - YouTube
The third video actually came from I.o. inc with an email telling.me how the safety is supposed to be used... Oddly enough it doesn't show the safety being used. It only shows it firing:
My pps43-c test fired at I.o. inc: My pps43-c test fired at I.o. inc - YouTube
The fourth video is myself doing a live fire demo (shot yesterday) for the guys at I.o.:
I.O.inc Pps43-c firing with safety on: I.O.inc Pps43-c firing with safety on - YouTube
The fifth video is of the pps43-c AFTER live fire demo yesterday. This was to show the damage to the firearm from it firing in safe mode:
Aftermath of the pps43-c firing w/ safety engaged: Aftermath of the pps43-c firing w/ safety engaged - YouTube
I have posted extensively on texasguntalk.
I have posted a review with info detailing the safety issue on gunboards.
I have posted on the firing line forum about this problem warning about the issue
I have posted to a firearm specific pps43 forum on weaponeer forums.
To be fair, I.o. did agree to give me less than I paid for the gun as credit (which I understood to be a true credit which I could use as I pleased). They then cornered me on an AK-47 they have called the model m214. After receiving the cashiers check they got the BBB complaint and backed out of the deal. I'm still debating a second BBB complaint for backing out of our agreed deal (agreed verbally via phone and later in emails).
I have forwarded pics and video and info to the BBB. They have not made a ruling. I sent Uli Wiegand an email yesterday asking for a resolution to repair or replace but haven't heard back from him yet.
I received an email from their cust service manager a couple days ago basically saying they would buy it back from me for $299.95. That price is unacceptable so I replied to the owner (Uli) with the repair/replace offer.
BSA1
member
I would have a gunsmith look at it and give a estimate to repair it. I would then send the estimate to the company and ask they either pay you or the gunsmith the estimated amount.
jhb
Member
Not that it matters now, but filing a bbb complaint while they are working with you was not the best idea.
Call and talk to them leaving emotion and ill will behind and try to come to a resolution that benefits ya both. That's what I would do. Good luck. Hope y'all can find a solution.
Call and talk to them leaving emotion and ill will behind and try to come to a resolution that benefits ya both. That's what I would do. Good luck. Hope y'all can find a solution.
Taurus 617 CCW
Member
I had to deal with I.O. Inc. regarding a customer's two Hellcat pistols. After two trips back to the factory they still didn't solve the problem. I will never recommend that company to anyone again. Terrible customer service! It took eight weeks for me to establish contact with a live person calling every other day and emailing daily. :banghead:
danez71
Member
(I didn't watch any of the vids)
What did they say after you sent the video of it firing with the safety on?
What did they say after you sent the video of it firing with the safety on?
rogdigity
Member
smalls
Member
Forget about it. Just chuck it in the trash. Buddy of mine bought a Hellcat .380, broke the extractor on it's 22nd round. They wouldn't even send a free replacement part, let alone fix it. He bought an extractor off them, I put it in. ~45 rounds later and the extractor broke again. Replaced it, again. 'Nother 100ish rounds and the trigger stopped resetting I.O. Refused to do anything about it.
^^^ This. It's not worth continued efforts. Sometimes it's just best to cut your losses and move on.
Field Tester
Member
Just read the comments on TTAG and it doesn't look very good. I'm sorry you have to go through this. Hopefully it never happens to anyone else in the community. It looks like Uli is trying to make good in some cases, but from the looks of things I will not be purchasing any of their products anytime soon.
I'm surprised it happened with two of them, everyone I've talked to who's had a PPS-43c (I love that gun) didn't have any issues. Only thing I've ever heard of is with the 7.62x25 version they sometimes had a failure to fire because the primers are harder (which wasn't a problem for the original open bolt design).
Going to be picking up a 9mm version shortly.
Going to be picking up a 9mm version shortly.
g.willikers
Member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2007
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- 1,027
Another reason not to buy odd ball guns from less than well known sources??
Mman
Member
If you bought with credit card you could dispute charges. That is big leverage. I use a card whenever there is the option for that reason.
rogdigity
Member
Test one out. It takes about 15-24 pounds to release the hammer with the safety on.
ohbythebay
Member
I don't use the BBB
ALWAYS go with the Attorney General's office for their homes state. Explain to the AG complaint that IO is selling UNSAFE firearms. That will get their attention. I promise you.
ALWAYS go with the Attorney General's office for their homes state. Explain to the AG complaint that IO is selling UNSAFE firearms. That will get their attention. I promise you.
It actually doesn't make much difference to me. Booger hook off the boom switch works well enough for me. And if I'm walking around or doing something other than actively shooting it isn't chambered. (The safety not working on my carry gun, the Sig 938, would be a whole different story).
Ohbythebay - it's a military surplus gun initially made over 70 years ago, you can't expect the world from them. It would be one thing if the gun just went off on its own or the barrel blew up when you fired it, THAT is unsafe. Having a safety that doesn't work in an old gun is just something that happens.
stonecutter2
Member
I never rely on safeties, so I wouldn't care much.
Have you tried actually loading it and firing it with the safety on? Does it really fire a round? EDIT: I'm a goofus, saw your videos, never mind.
That pistol looks sweet though, making me consider one again.
Have you tried actually loading it and firing it with the safety on? Does it really fire a round? EDIT: I'm a goofus, saw your videos, never mind.
That pistol looks sweet though, making me consider one again.
HoosierQ
Member
may I ask? Who is i.o.? Oops. I see Inter Ordinance.
barnbwt
member
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- Aug 14, 2011
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- 7,340
Is the OP the same guy as on weaponeer, or is this a separate incident? There is a very detailed explanation for how this could happen mechanically (it is a very stiff safety which, if forced, by attempting to cock the bolt on safe, will damage the device and allow it to fire on safe position; perhaps not acceptable in a factory new design, but that's not what this is ). The story seems to be that these rebuilds are delicate/touchy in the safety design, while also stiff to manipulate. Considering what the guns are built from and their extensive mods to semi, at such a low price point, malfunction is hardly surprising --that is sort of the way most of these open to closed bolt conversions are if not hand gunsmithed one at a time.
TCB
). The story seems to be that these rebuilds are delicate/touchy in the safety design, while also stiff to manipulate. Considering what the guns are built from and their extensive mods to semi, at such a low price point, malfunction is hardly surprising --that is sort of the way most of these open to closed bolt conversions are if not hand gunsmithed one at a time.TCB
BSA1
member
I did not know this gun was 70 years old.
Guns that are over 50 years old are considered to be purchased for collecting and as relics, not as shooters. There are a sizable number of C&R firearms out there that, while of interesting design, should not be shot .
Either hang it on the wall or sell it to another collecter.
Guns that are over 50 years old are considered to be purchased for collecting and as relics, not as shooters. There are a sizable number of C&R firearms out there that, while of interesting design, should not be shot .
Either hang it on the wall or sell it to another collecter.
rogdigity
Member
Yes, I did post there as well as several other sites before I got their full attention it seemed...
For the record it is impossible to cock with the safety engaged as the safety bat itself actually tilts upwards and physically blocks the bolt from moving. If you find the live fire video you can see that after it is fired the bolt can't move back and the spent case stays inside the chamber.
As for the c&r status, these are considered remade and not eligible for c&r status. The upper receiver, the entire bolt, and the entire trigger group is changed.
I am glad to say that today I.o. president and myself have reached an agreement. While it's not exactly a winning situation for either side it is a fair agreement. I have previously offered a few solutions to their csm. I have actually came up with a better, cheaper solution which I will pass on as well.
For the record it is impossible to cock with the safety engaged as the safety bat itself actually tilts upwards and physically blocks the bolt from moving. If you find the live fire video you can see that after it is fired the bolt can't move back and the spent case stays inside the chamber.
As for the c&r status, these are considered remade and not eligible for c&r status. The upper receiver, the entire bolt, and the entire trigger group is changed.
I am glad to say that today I.o. president and myself have reached an agreement. While it's not exactly a winning situation for either side it is a fair agreement. I have previously offered a few solutions to their csm. I have actually came up with a better, cheaper solution which I will pass on as well.
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