What would you do?

[The Goose]

Two days ago I purchased a brand new S&W revolver. I was planning on taking it to the range today so this AM I decided to give it a light cleaning which I always do for any new gun. I ran a clean patch with a few drops of solvent on it through the barrel and it came out black, I mean really black. So I did the same on the cylinder chambers and all six came out black. I then proceeded to thoroughly clean the gun, which was a chore.

Now I have purchased dozens of new handguns and I have never had this happen. This gun had been fired and more then just a test firing. Looking closely I can now see a turning line on the cylinder. ***!

So my question to you all, is what should I do? Is this worth getting upset about? Certainly I am going to tell the shop owner about it, but what, if anything, should I expect. Is this common? Would you just let it go or gear up for a fight?

I really like the gun and it appears to be in otherwise perfect working order. Still, a part of me is annoyed. Shouldn’t new mean new? Your thoughts are welcome. Thank you.

 

[Sinsaba]

First, see if you can get some good/free legal advice (local consumer groups?) there might actually be legal action you can take if the show owner doesn't make it right. Don't take it to the range... take it right back to the dealer. Act annoyed (which you rightfully are), explain that you want your money back. Continue to explain (without letting shop owner tell you you can't have your money back) that you like the gun but it is obviously used and therefore isn't worth the NEW price you paid for it.

See what he does.

For me, if the dealer took the attitude that you paid for it, you took possesion of it so "tough". I'd let it slide (unless you can take legal action and maybe even then... legal action costs money) reminding the dealer that you will be sure to tell ALL of your gun friends to not give his business the time of day, that you have other avenues to let an even wider range of people know what you think of his service. It won't change his mind but it will cause him some thought if his business slows down anytime in the next few week.

Otherwise... just shoot and have fun. Remember to tell everyone you know about this dealer.

 

[depicts]

I tested it for you!

I bought a gun from a dealer recently, and when he gave it to me he said,..."this shoots real nice, I took it out and tested it for you".

It was a little Henry boys rifle, so no real damage done, but it sorta, kinda ticked me off anyway.

If it had been a revolver and showed turn marks more than one shot at the factory I think I would have gone ballistic. (What pun?)

 

[Lupinus]

Take it back and ask for at least part of your money back or a replacment with a new gun and closly inspect it. Don't be a jerk about it, don't act happy but don't be a jerk or make demands start off professional and if it takes more persuading then you can step on to seriously annoyed. Explain to him you paid the price for a new gun and that you didn't recieve a new gun since it has obviously on a bit closer inspection been used...alot.

If he refuses let him know in no uncertian terms that he sells junk and he is going to have one very PO'ed loud mouthed ex-customer with a lot of local gun buddies and an internet connection.

 

[Mizzle187]

I would take it up there as soon as I had a chance. I would bring the dirty swabs etc.. I would let him know that what he did is techniclly not legal if in fact it was advertised was told to you thta it was new. New doesnt mean fire 10 round through. New means he hasnt had it for long and it hasnt been shot/disassembled since it came from the factory. I would get a full refund unless he offered a resonable(plus some for the shady antics) credit for the time it was used. Im sure the gun you bought could be bought at tons of other places. I would be stern but not irrate or disrespectful at first unless he treated you in those manners. The reason I say dont be disrespectful or irrate at first but stern is becuase he could through you ought of the store and ban you from coming there and then you would be stuck with the gun. Another reason is the owner may not have known it had been fired(assuming more than one person works at this place and these other employess having the ability to do these things) becuase another employes did it without his knowing or another employee marked it new when it was really used. You do have the right to be upset though!

 

[Kramer Krazy]

Missashot bought a S&W 1911 a couple of months ago, but was quite hesitant. The gun had definitely been fired more than 2 or 3 test shots, as the breechface was quite dirty, as was the barrel. They insisted it was "new" and would volunteer to show us their books (but this wouldn't rulkle out them, or a buddy of theirs, taking it to the range to shoot a box). We asked another dealer, who didn't carry S&W, and he told us the same thing....that it probably was new, just fired a lot at the factory to work out a bug, or someone was just happy to shoot that gun. He todl us of a previous customer buying a S&W when they used to carry them pitching an absolute fit when he found out his "new" gun was dirty. They actually called S&W where they admited that they don't clean their guns after test firing, and some guns get more test fired than others. After several weeks, she finally went and bought it. If not anything else, it was under warranty, and she got the stainless model for what the blued ones typically went for. She loves the gun, but still feels that it was not "new" when she bought it.....she did fill out the blue registration card with S&W, so we guess it is "new"....

Recently picked up a S&W 617-4 for a really good price (less than half of retail). It still had the registration card with it and had never been sold, previously. Turns out, though, and the dealer was very up front about it, the revolver was a dealer sample model with hundreds, or thousands of rounds through it. Turns out it has a cylinder gap issue, and despite it being a dealer sample, I am technically the "first" owner, and it is being repaired at S&W under warranty as I type this.

 

[iamhistory]

Not trying to be rude but it seems to me that if the revolver were that dirty and had a marked cylinder, you would have noticed/checked it out before taking it home. I am wary of those sorts of things and even though they may have a truly legitimate reason for the grime and marks, I would want to hear about it to put my mind at ease.

I think you would be correct and well served by looking into it at the shop just to see where it goes. If you get a bad feeling and they won't do anything about it, then you'll know not to go back there again. You never know, they might must replace it and still sell the one you have for new again and have no loss to them and a happy customer.

 

[Auslander]

Where do you live?

Some states now require 'ballistic finger printing' for all handguns. This requires the guns to be fired when shipping in to those states and the cases sent to the 'ballistic finger print archive' of that state. Here is a real idiot point ... they are required to do so even for revolvers.

Yup all the gangs are doing drive by shooting and we all know that they leave cases behind. SO lets require case samples be saved from firearms that don't leave'em behind.

No telling if that is the reason or not.

It could be someone 'tested' a NIB direct from factory firearm for you to make sure you didn't get a lemon. I don't shop firearms at places that also have a range.

 

[SomeKid]

Goose, Kramer, sounds like both you guys got married to the girl who had been used by the football team. A lot.

 

[Kramer Krazy]

Goose, Kramer, sounds like both you guys got married to the girl who had been used by the football team. A lot.

Hmmmm......

........I'm assuming that the "girl" that you refer to are the guns in question..........In my case, the 617 was openly stated as a dealer-sample, but "new" in respects of any warranty issues, as the gun had never previously been sold. The S&W 1911 in question is the same situation (but actually does look new, minus some filth around the breechface and some in the barrel). Before purchase, the condition of each gun was very well known to us (except the 0.0015" out of spec issue with the 617, as I didn't have any feeler-gauges on me). We figured, it was worth both guns being a little dirty for the amount of savings we were getting......well, the 617 was a actually a LOT dirty.

BTW - There is a particular gun shop/indoor range in Columbia, SC that will swear on thier graves that a gun they used as a range rental is considered "new", and they try to sell it at the same price as one still in the factory sealed box. ......we've never bought any gun marked as "new" from them.

 

[The Goose]

Well, I learned a whole bunch today. Most importantly I re-learned that most things just are not worth getting upset about. Especially “stuff”. I took my revolver back to the shop and explained my upset, politely. The first words out of the dealer’s mouth were, “I am so sorry. I’ll make it right.” He then brought me behind the counter, opened up his computer and we traced down where the gun had come from and made certain it was new. He then phoned Smith & Wesson customer service. He explained the situation to them and then put me on the phone.

The customer service guy was not particularly helpful or sympathetic. He explained that all guns are test fired and that random samplings might even have 50 – 75 rounds put through them. I understood his position, but felt that he could have been a bit nicer. At one point he said in a curt tone, “ Hey look, we test fire the gun, wipe it with a rag and stick it in a box. It is not our job to swab out the bore or the charge holes.” (direct quote) I reiterated that my gun seemed to be very dirty and I had never experienced that in a new gun. His response was, “Well, what do you want me to do about it?” My dealer got back on the phone and tried to plead my case, pointing out that I was an extremely good and active customer and that I purchase a lot of S&W product (which I do). Finally the customer service guy said he would send me some S&W stuff, whatever that means.

My dealer then offered to either refund my money, order me a new gun or do whatever I thought was fair. I was very impressed with his response and by this time I was feeling a bit bad about the whole situation. I certainly did not want him to get stuck on the deal.I guess what I really wanted was for someone to acknowledge the legitimacy of my complaint. By this time the entire staff and other customers were involved and they were all cheering me on, so to speak. I told the dealer that I would take the gun to the range and assuming that everything was OK I would let it drop. He then told me to at least take a few boxes of ammo for my trouble.

I want to be clear that I understand S&W’s position. Some guy calls up and says his new gun is dirty and they have lost control of that item months ago I can’t really expect that there is much they can do. However, from a customer service perspective some understanding of my position would have been helpful. An apology might have been nice. On the plus side I am very happy with my local dealer and I will continue to squander all of my expendable income in his establishment. Also thanks to those of you who responded and brought some perspective to my addled brain.

 

[redneck2]

Since you were more than willing to spread negative info about the dealer, I'd suggest you do the right thing and tell everyone how well you were treated

We get lots of threads here about guys that got "ripped off". Dealers like this are ones that deserve our support.

As for the "turn marks" on the cylinder, I don't get it. Now if it's a collector piece that will never be fired (which I think is totally ridiculous) I could maybe understand. If it's a shooter, what's the big deal?? A cylinder full or two and it's gonna have marks anyway.

My aunt bitched at my uncle to remodel her kitchen for 20 years. He finally got it finished, then she'd never use it 'cause she didn't want to get it dirty or spots in the sink. Seems like the same kind of deal to me.

 

[The Goose]

Since you were more than willing to spread negative info about the dealer, I'd suggest you do the right thing and tell everyone how well you were treated

We get lots of threads here about guys that got "ripped off". Dealers like this are ones that deserve our support.

Good point. The dealer is Collector's Guns in Stoneham, MA. I highly recommend them.




As for the "turn marks" on the cylinder, I don't get it. Now if it's a collector piece that will never be fired (which I think is totally ridiculous) I could maybe understand. If it's a shooter, what's the big deal?? A cylinder full or two and it's gonna have marks anyway.

My aunt bitched at my uncle to remodel her kitchen for 20 years. He finally got it finished, then she'd never use it 'cause she didn't want to get it dirty or spots in the sink. Seems like the same kind of deal to me.

The turn marks did not really bother as much as the dirtiness. I thought perhaps I was being sold a used gun as a new one. I did not necessarily accuse the dealer, it could have been the distributer. I now know that sometimes new guns arrive dirty, as I said, I learned a few things today. My personal experience with new guns has been that they are quite clean with no turn marks. That was my experience. Which is why I asked for advice. I then chose to proceed in a reasonable which became both educational and also deepened my relationship with that dealer.

 

[SIOP]

Smith and Wesson fires at least one full cylinder through all of its revolvers and does not clean them afterwards. Some get more than that.

Turn rings? If you look at the Smith and Wesson printed catalog, there's turn rings on the cylinders of the guns in the photos there, too.

 

[CrazyIrishman]

Back in 1995 I wanted to buy a Colt 1911 but the dealer was out of stock for the particular model I wanted ( a Combat Commander-stainless) so I bought a PARA P-12 45acp. that was supposed to be brand spankin' new and in the box. The price wasn't bad either.

After I got the critter home I disassembled it to clean and inspect for any foreign matter. Lo and behold, this 45 was filthy! I started to freak out a little as I had never seen a new firearm this dirty. I figured that perhaps this was due to test firing, although doubts lingered.

Two days later I went to the range with a retired LEO friend of mine to have a friendly "shootoff" with auto vs. wheelgun (old S&W snubby). I went first and no sooner the PARA fired then it stovepiped and would not chamber round #2. Tried it again,same thing happened so I changed brand of ammo thinking it be ok. This time round #1 cycled ok and chambered round #2 only to jam again.

The next day at the dealer I explained what happened and brought both boxes of ammo with me (purchased with the PARA). Unlike the reception that "The Goose" received my dealer was downright nasty. He emphatically insisted that somehow I was responsible for the malfunctions.

I swapped the PARA for the Colt I wanted in the first place and took delivery in about 10 days. When I went in to pick my Colt up he had the cojones to ask if I might still be interested in the PARA as they FIXED the problem!! It turned out to be a bad ejector ! Never did get a "were sorry" for blaming me for the problem. After the sale was completed with the Colt I never went back!

I should note that the Colt had light oil on it from the factory but NOT A SPECK of dirt,residue, etc...

GOOSE, I'm glad you have a dealer that appreciates his customers and knows how to treat 'em! GOOD LUCK with yer new SMITH!

 

[scout26]

Since you were more than willing to spread negative info about the dealer, I'd suggest you do the right thing and tell everyone how well you were treated

We get lots of threads here about guys that got "ripped off". Dealers like this are ones that deserve our support.

I second that. A dealer like that needs, nay, deserves some free publicity, so that other MA/NE shooters can patronize this gentleman's establishment.