Whats It Gonna Take To Make My Chinese 1911 Reliable?

[charliemopic]

My very first firearm....
a Chinese made 1911 clone made by Norinco. I thought it was reliable but I've read that if your 1911 jams once in 100 rounds its not reliable. My Nork might jam twice in one mag or once in several mags or not at all for a dozen magazines. Jams are rare when its clean but after 100 or so rounds the stoppages begin. I have three new'ish 8 round magazines that I use, 2 Kimbers and a Shooting Star. Primarily I shoot Winchester white box 230gr. ball ammo from Walmart. This gun is not worn out. It came to me with a Wilson 'D' barrel and tight fitting bushing that requires a bushing wrench to remove unless you can take the pain to your thumbs and what I think is called the feed ramp has some polishing done and the extractor has some of the blue removed from the claw where it may have been tuned? After shooting 556 rounds I disassembled the 'entire' pistol except I did not remove the mag release or trigger. This is the only 1911 I have been able to inspect closely so I have nothing to compare it to. I checked for wear on bearing surfaces and found nothing I could see. If the sear, disconnector or other parts have been changed I wouldn't know it by looking at them.
Like alot of Americans when I seen it was made in China I wanted to dump it until I showed it to 2 local pistol smiths and spoke to a Wilson rep. All felt that the Norinco 1911 was a very decent piece to start with. The 2 locals asked if I wanted to sell it...I don't.
Now that I've put together enuff cash I want my gun to as good as it can be.
I've read all kinds of things about polish this and buff that but I have hundreds of back aching hours under my belt with a die grinder porting & polishing automotive cylinder heads to improve air flow & performance and I know it doesn't take much to kill flow when removing material so I don't want to try making any changes myself. Fact is I don't know what the heck I'm doin!!
Our local pistolsmith has had the slide for 2 months to re-install a Millett front sight that flew off while shooting and i won't let him have it again. I'll pick up the slide tonight finsished or not.
What is it gonna take to get it reliable.
Thanks.
Angelo

 

[HSMITH]

It really is impossible to say what it will take without knowing what kind of stoppages you are having. It could be a 5 minute tweak or a couple hundred bucks depending on what is actually happening.

HOW does it jam? Where is the cartridge, the slide, etc?

 

[1911Tuner]

Jammin'

Howdy Angelo, (<---Sorry for the silliness, grammar police. It's a southern thang.)

"Jam" is a little too generic. Describe the stoppage in detail.

Note too that a failure to feed means that the round doesn't enter the chamber. Once it gets into the chamber...even just a little...it's a failure to return to battery and not a fialure to feed.

95% of all feed failures are magazine related. A failure to go to/return to battery can be caused by the magazine, but is usually extractor related.

Failures to extract are almost always extractor related. Even a rouch chamber will let one extract if the extractor is good.

Failures to eject can be caused by the extractor, ejector, light ammo, or heavy recoil springs, or the slide not making full travel for various reasons.

Good magazines...A good extractor...and decent ammo that is within certain
parameters both as to external dimensions and internal ballistics. If those things are properly tended to, and your 1911-pattern pistol is unreliable, you've got a problem.

For the record...again...I don't consider ANY 8-round, flush-fit magazine to be reliable enough to bet my life on. I won't even use'em in range beaters.

Standin' by...

 

[ken grant]

Jams

I too used to have a multitude of various jams,very seldom the same all the time and then sometimes no jams at all.
Tried all kinds of tricks--springs,follower angles,fluff and buff.
All of this with mostly 8 rd. mags., but some cheap 7 rd. mags.
Wolf 11# springs and Metalform flat followers with the dimple cured all my mag. related problems with 9 1911's(including an Officer's ACP

 

[Oscar Orum]

magazines

Ken, we are on the same page. Even us hard headed Texas boys listens to the Master when he speaks. He does know of what he speaks and I am so greatly he shares his knowledge is such a graceful matter.

 

[1911Tuner]

Master

Master? That's pushin' it a bit...

Truth is...95% of all the functional problems with a 1911-pattern pistol are simple to correct. Wish I had a dime for every delinquent pistol that I've
"fixed" by just handin' the owner a handful of good magazines...or with just a detail-strip and a good scrubbin'.

 

[ken grant]

Tuner

Got a box full of Devel type followers,stock springs and +5% Wolf springs.
Will sell cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[charliemopic]

Thanks

Thanks so much for the info.
To address the reliability issue I'll start by getting a half dozen or so Metalform '7' round magazines in a THR group buy and I guess I should get the flat follower.
However, for more than the past 2 months my slide has been at a local gunshop to get sights properly re-installed. They have installed the front sight that I owe $25 labor for and they have removed the rear sight to install a new blade but have misplaced-lost it and they have no idea when they might find it, thus...no end in sight:banghead: . I think what I'll do is pick up my cheapo Norko slide (that I love so much) from the gun shop and consider the sights a loss. I didn't really like the adjustable Millett sights anyway. Then buy some simple fixed sights, maybe original Norinco sights and try to find a reliable & organized pistol smith to properly install them. Maybe ship it to Wilson in Berryville, Arkansas only bcuz I think? and hope they will do quality work in a timlely manner.
Thing is, mrs.charliemopic isn't keen on more throwing hard earned cash at the Nork and not being sure if we'll get anything for it.
picute is my buddy Mr.Bud Weiner and me.
Ang. in IL.

 

[Lindenberger]

Norinco

Any Chinese-fabricated firearm made for the Chinese military is--generally speaking--pretty good stuff; their firearms for the American gunshop market are--generally speaking--garbage. Sell it cheap to someone you dislike.


Have Cage. Will Travel. [email protected].

 

[1911Tuner]

Market

Any Chinese-fabricated firearm made for the Chinese military is--generally speaking--pretty good stuff; their firearms for the American gunshop market are--generally speaking--garbage. Sell it cheap to someone you dislike.

That's right! Send me all your garbage Norincos for proper, embarassment-free disposal. Will pay shipping. I promise to be discreet.

 

[Lindenberger]

Touche. But I didn't say all. Most of the American knock-offs that I've seen from Norinco had more rattles than a '55 Nash.

 

[1911Tuner]

Rattles

Touche. But I didn't say all. Most of the American knock-offs that I've seen from Norinco had more rattles than a '55 Nash.

It matters not, grasshopper. The Norincos will run, and they're more durable than a chunk of pig iron.

Welcome aboard!

 

[gc70]

Lindenberger,

Since you're new on the board (welcome!), I can't stand by and let you dig yourself in any deeper without giving you the chance to first read the Nork Report.

 

[ulflyer]

Charlie, Being a Nork fan, and having changed out some of the sights myself I might have a rear sight for you if you can put it in. It helps if you have a vise big enough to put the slide in (with leather or thin wood on each side to keep from scratching it) and you can tap it in lightly from the right hand side (thats looking at it from the rear) preferably with a brass punch, or if even a metal one. worse it can do is slightly mar the sight, which you then put a litttle cold blue on. PM me if you need it and I'll dig around in my box to see if I have one. However, if your new front sight is taller than the original, then you'll need a taller rear. A Colt sight from Brownell's is taller, and costs about $10.

If anyone reading this thread hasn't read Tuner's treatise on Norks where he went over about 90 diff ones and found them to be pretty good pieces of equipment, then I recommend they look it up and read it. Good stuff.

And Charlie, don't send your POS Nork to Tuner; it'll just get lost in that big safe of his and never see light again. Send it to me instead.

 

[1911Tuner]

Safe

Ted sez:

And Charlie, don't send your POS Nork to Tuner; it'll just get lost in that big safe of his and never see light again. Send it to me instead.

Nahhhh. I'll beat on it with a hammer 'til I get the rattles out, go shoot it a couple hundred thousand times and see what else it needs.

Ted's down on his Norinco count. Guess that makes me the New Duke of Nork in these parts...

 

[charliemopic]

It really is impossible to say what it will take without knowing what kind of stoppages you are having. It could be a 5 minute tweak or a couple hundred bucks depending on what is actually happening.

HOW does it jam? Where is the cartridge, the slide, etc?

Well, its been awhile since I've had the .45 to the range.
As I remember and I'm not real framiliar with the terms but I think its called a '3 point jam' where the fresh round was at an angle while 'half in-half out' of the chamber.
Another type of jam I remember seeing was when the the spent round had been successfuly ejected, the slide stayed all or most of the way back or out of battery and the fresh round is sitting there still in the mag appearing to have not moved off its position in the mag, i think it was pointed slightly down too.

Recently discovering pages of previous posts here on THR , particularly from '1911Tuner' I think it is very unselfish and most generous for 1911Tuner and others who are truely in the know of these perplexing and powerful machines we call the 1911 to take the time to post such valuable and most helpful information so the least I can do is read it, take it in and re-read it.

1911Tuner
"For the record...again...I don't consider ANY 8-round, flush-fit magazine to be reliable enough to bet my life on. I won't even use'em in range beaters."

Since I've had my .45 all I've used is the same three 8-round mags but load just 7. Don't know why its just how it happens.
Would you happen to know the Metalform part# for the best magazine to use in the 1911 clone that I have?
To sit here in my living room and get info like this great. Thank you sir.
Angelo

 

[Lindenberger]

Green, scummy Norks.

Lindenberger,

Since you're new on the board (welcome!), I can't stand by and let you dig yourself in any deeper without giving you the chance to first read the Nork Report.

O.K. Read it. Was it supposed to make me like Norks? What I get from "The Report" is that compared to Glock, Browning and Co., Norks are pieces of Nitrogenous Effluent of the Hominid type--which is what I thought of them--generally--before reading "The Report." Sorry. You pushed.

 

[MICHAEL T]

O.K. Read it. Was it supposed to make me like Norks? What I get from "The Report" is that compared to Glock, Browning and Co., Norks are pieces of Nitrogenous Effluent of the Hominid type--which is what I thought of them--generally--before reading "The Report." Sorry. You pushed.

You are sure to make a lot of friends here with your attitude. Maybe you should turn it down a bit.

 

[Lindenberger]

Good Nork!

You are sure to make a lot of friends here with your attitude. Maybe you should turn it down a bit.

OK, OK. Nice Nork. Good Nork. I love Nork. Trenton's OK, too.

 

[Lindenberger]

Good Nork!

Sorry. You couldn't give me a Nork-knockoff. To me, there's just no comparison between Norks and, say, a Sig or a Browning. None whatsoever. So hate me for telling the truth.

 

[charliemopic]

Charlie, Being a Nork fan, and having changed out some of the sights myself I might have a rear sight for you if you can put it in. It helps if you have a vise big enough to put the slide in (with leather or thin wood on each side to keep from scratching it) and you can tap it in lightly from the right hand side (thats looking at it from the rear) preferably with a brass punch, or if even a metal one. worse it can do is slightly mar the sight, which you then put a litttle cold blue on. PM me if you need it and I'll dig around in my box to see if I have one. However, if your new front sight is taller than the original, then you'll need a taller rear. A Colt sight from Brownell's is taller, and costs about $10.

The front sight is a Millett, according to their catalog its a stake-on .312" height, part#SO31217. Looks tall too.
The slide has a flat cut into it where the sight sits and of course the slot for the stake is in the center of that flat. The flat has no bluing on it.
Its not a very good image but maybe you can see what I mean in this pic.
The other pic taken last year is the sight picture of the Millett sights.
All I want is low profile ordinary sights.

 

[1911Tuner]

Hold!

Ai'ght...Let's not be too hard on our new member guys. He's got his own ideas. Instead, let us try to give him another perspective.

Lindenberger...I propose a match. Your Sig or Browning against any one of 4
Norinco pistols that I have here. (I won't abuse the Pimpgun) You pick the beater. Three have been refitted and all have been rebarrelled. Other than that, they're bone stock, right down to the sights.

I propose a torture test under conditions that will give you pause to consider just how badly you hate your gun, and whether you want to continue.

Bring the Sig of your choice and 5,000 rounds of your favorite ammo. Whatever I do with/to my Norinco, you do to your pistol. Loser buys
dinner. Quitter loses by default. Any volunteers to act as judges/referees/mud mixers, shoot me a PM.

Standin' by...

 

[Jammer Six]

Use sand. Tight guns hate big, course sand.

I wanna play...

 

[1911Tuner]

Sand

Use sand. Tight guns hate big, course sand.

I wanna play...

Come on over, Ranger. They hate the southeastern red clay worse than sand.

On second thought...I think I'll pick the pistol for the game. I've got a Norinco
here that I was savin' for a rebuild when the weather turns bad...which should be any day now. I can put it off until after the Duel to Destruction.

 

[1911Tuner]

Games

On second thought...I think I'll picke the Norinco for the game. I've got one here that I dropped a used Colt barrel into and have beaten it half to death for the past 8-9 months. It's about ready for a rebuild anyway...so I'll use the worst one. No sense in usin' one that I spent bucks and time on. Right?