What's the most powerful milsurp?

[coosbaycreep]

What's the most powerful milsurp caliber using surplus military ammo?

With reloads, I'd guess .30-06, but I think 8x56r or 8mm mauser might have more knockdown when only surplus ammo is considered, and I don't know if there's any other military calibers that were more powerful than those or not.

 

[offthepaper]

I don't know it to be the MOST powerful, but the Russian 54R has to be near the top.

 

[1 old 0311]

.50 bmg?

 

[Jim Watson]

8x63 Swedish
The Swedes in 1932 wanted an MG caliber more powerful than the 6.5x55 or even .30-06 and 8x57.
They bought some '98 Mauser rifles and chambered them for the same round.
I guess the idea was that the ammo humpers in the weapons squad could reload their rifles with rounds pulled off the end of MG belts if they ran short.

 

[Hatterasguy]

20mm Lahti.



20mm on left, .50 BMG right, and the poor little 5.56 looking a little out done in front.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrD_GnkG7dI

 

[fireside44]

8x57

Slight edge over the 06.

 

[GunsBeerFreedom]

14.5x114 PTRD or PTRS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTRD

 

[Float Pilot]

As far as a regular sized infantry rifle, Jim Watson is correct. The Swede M-98s were marked M-40 and had a muzzle brake. The 8x63 Swedish was similar in power to the 338 Win Mag.
It was intended for lightly armored targets and barriers.

 

[aka108]

The lone that jolted me the most was a 8x56R fired out of Styer 95.

 

[Tommygunn]

.30 Carbine.





Okay, I was only joking.

 

[MachIVshooter]

8x63 Swedish

Yup. The 8x59 Breda would have been right there, too, if the Italians had had the sense to ditch the 6.5 and adopt a stronger rifle. It was strictly a machine gun cartridge, though.

 

[NCsmitty]

Some of the early anti-tank weapons were shoulder fired. Here's a listing of some past ATR's with some performance figures and pics.

www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ATRart.htm




NCsmitty

 

[paducahrider]

Most powerful milsurp?

Howdy!
I have an early 1960s edition of a gun magazine with an ad for a 20 mm Lahti(Finnish?) anti-tank cannon, for $149.99. Both it and it's cheap ammunition were available by mail order.
The Lahti was equipped with snow skis and a shoulder stock.
Reportedly, this weapon performed pretty well against early WWII tanks.
I don't know exactly how that compares to other 20mm shoulder fired weapons, but I imagine its up there pretty far.
Thanks for your time.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I have an early 1960s edition of a gun magazine with an ad for a 20 mm Lahti(Finnish?) anti-tank cannon, for $149.99. Both it and it's cheap ammunition

God, I wish I'd lived then. You can move that decimal two spaces right these days.

 

[gunnutery]

$149.99!! If only my Grandfather would've had the foresight to know how much I'd like guns.

 

[rangerruck]

I would guess the styer as well. A power round in 8mm, fired from a rifle about as long and heavy as a Daisy red ryder...

 

[Jim Watson]

Hmm. I made a leap of logic and limited myself to smallarms, not even considering the various anti-armor weapons you could buy pretty freely before GCA 1968.

There were gunzine articles back then about such things as a 25mm Puteaux towed light anti tank rifle with the Lahti and Steyr 20mms in the pickup truck for a little light plinking.

Or the guys who refurbished a Hotchkiss 37mm rotary cannon like a big Gatling.


But if you don't mind black powder, I do know some folks in a CW reenactment artillery battery. They usually take the 12 pounder mountain howitzers because they have horses and a limber and can keep up with the infantry in a movement scenario. But when they set up in a static firing line they get out the 20 lb Parrott and Blakely rifles (4.5"). In live fire, a 17 lb solid zinc shot with a copper gas check punches an impressive hole in a plywood target.

 

[Cosmoline]

The 8x56R Austro-Hungarian is outrageously powerful, but not up to the 8x63 swede.

 

[paducahrider]

"I wish I'd lived then"

Howdy!
To MachIVshooter:
In the same 1960s magazine as the Lahti 20mm is an ad for Swedish Model 1896, 6.5X55 cal. sniper rifles/with matcing scope for $49.99. I believe they are going for about $1400 and up these days.
If only,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?
Thanks for your time.

 

[CraigC]

The OP referenced the .30-06, 8x56R and 8x57 so I think it's safe to say he wasn't referring to anti-tank weapons.

 

[saturno_v]

8x57

Slight edge over the 06.

No....if you calculate by case capacity and pressure specs, the 8x57 is slightly behind 30-06 and 7,62x54R

The 8x56R Austro-Hungarian is outrageously powerful

Not really....the only data I could find mention 206 gr. at 2300 fps or 200 gr. at 2040 fps....Prvi Partizan sells one load 208 gr. at 2296 fps...not exactly 30-06 territory...

Even the 8x63 Swedish, I suspect, is not that much more powerful than the 30-06...it is true that in a test with a Turkish Mauser it was able, at max pressure, to launch a 180 gr. bullet at close to 3000 fps....but the barrel length of that rifle is 29"!!! So maybe more powerful than the original mil spec 30-06 but not the modern 30-06 loadings.

 

[DMK]

What's the most powerful milsurp caliber using surplus military ammo?

Considering all the service rifle and LMG rounds of WWII, I'd say you are probably splitting hairs, especially when you consider they were all using FMJ bullets. Any one of them would punch right through you and out the other side. The US Army even widely used AP rounds in their rifles and machine guns.

 

[Cosmoline]

Not really....the only data I could find mention 206 gr. at 2300 fps or 200 gr. at 2040 fps....Prvi Partizan sells one load 208 gr. at 2296 fps...not exactly 30-06 territory...

Then your shoulder hasn't been properly introduced to S-Patronne ball ;-)

http://members.nuvox.net/~on.melchar/8x56r/surp.html

Over 3,200 ft. lbs. from a service rifle cartridge! I would say the numbers were in error except my shoulder has been properly introduced to this stuff, and I can attest that it's memorable.

No....if you calculate by case capacity and pressure specs, the 8x57 is slightly behind 30-06 and 7,62x54R

But if we're talking ball ammo, the '06 loads didn't use the full capacity of that cartridge. The 8x57JS did, and ball loadings have a slight edge (very slight) over the '06. As far as why the military didn't use the extra potential of the 06, which can reach .300 WM realms when maxed out, I suppose they just didn't need to. Plus it's hard on Garands.

 

[GunsBeerFreedom]

Cosmoline, I may very well be wrong, but didn't the M1 have a pressure limit in excess of 106,000? I swear I read that somewhere on these forums.