What's the problem behind my trigger? Technique question

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Amadeus

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A couple of weeks ago I got my Bushmaster XM15-E2S (m4 clone) sighted in at 25 yards using targets simulating 100 yards. I was grouping nice and tight at the center of the target.

Today I took the rifle to the 100 yard range. I was hitting all over the target" high, low, too far right, too far left. Every shot string had a different result.

What gives??

In both instances ammo was PMC 55gr. FBJ boat tail. The rifle is off the shelf stock.

I welcome any advice to achieve the same results at a true 100 yards that I am achieving at 25 with simulated 100 yard targets.
 
The group at 25 yards was about 6 inches across.

Today: there was one group that hit at about 12 o'clock and landed within a 6 inch circle. But I could not replicate it.
 
The group at 25 yards was about 6 inches across.

:eek:

You need to find an AR shooting buddy to help you. 6 inch groups at 25yds can not be helped on the internet. It's not a rifle, or ammo, issue. It's technique. ;)
 
your group @ 25y shouldn't be more than half an inch for the worst condition service rifle. I'd expect much better from a non worn the hell out civilian market AR. There very well could be a mechanical issue with your rifle. Scoped? Crown look good?

This your first rifle? If so, have someone more experienced shoot it.
 
It's not the rifle. It's definitely me. The 25 yard groups, despite my description were pretty tight. When I say 6 inches across, I am looking at the total spread between the two outer most impacts. I am not concerned with the 25 yard groups, not in the least. It's what happens when I get it out to 100 yards that is frustrating. I can't seem to hit consistently and I'm trying to figure out why.

Thanks for trying guys. I appreciate that it's too difficult an issue to analyze sight-unseen. I'll find someone at the club to give me some feedback.
 
It may not seem important to you, but if you cannot keep things a LOT tighter at 25 yards than " 6 inches" you CANNOT expect decent results of any kind at 100 yards. You need to spend a LOT more time at the 25 yard line refining technique before you can expect to shoot decently at 100
 
It's not the rifle. It's definitely me. The 25 yard groups, despite my description were pretty tight. When I say 6 inches across, I am looking at the total spread between the two outer most impacts. I am not concerned with the 25 yard groups, not in the least. It's what happens when I get it out to 100 yards that is frustrating. I can't seem to hit consistently and I'm trying to figure out why.

How do you know it isn't the rifle? Define pretty tight. How many shots in the group? What sights are you using? Are you shooting prone supported, prone unsupported, from the bench, sitting, standing, using a sling?

Those A2 style barrels have some flex, and using a sling inconsistently can cause problems with accuracy. Sight picture could be a huge problem... it only take a very small movement to make a huge group out of a small group. If your sights are moving... then you will see odd groups.

How are your sights attached to the rifle? You said off the shelf stock... so what format are you using? A2, A4, A1? Carrying handle integrated? Removable carrying handle (one possible sourece of movement), flat top with rail and removable rear sights (source of movement), scope (rings not properly secured to the base causing issues, bad scope not holding adjustment)? Is your front sight stting on your gas block.. is it tight?

More to the point, what have you done to verify the rifle? I'm having huge problems believing that your technique is so shoddy that you are getting 6" groups at 25y without some sort of mechanical issue with your rifle. What does your rifle shoot group wise in the hands of a competent shooter?

If your rifle isnt using a free floating barrel and you're using a rest... inconsistent pressure could be causing your vertical stringing. Shooting a hot barrel in one of those pencil thin barrels can cause POI shift up or down as well. Left to right (poor trigger can do some... but not 6" worth at 25y). That sounds a lot like loose sights.
 
Do you use a scope or open sights,(big difference between 25 yards and 100 with open sights) what type rest are you using, many question prior to getting help.

I have a factory stock Stag model 3 with a Weaver 5-20x44 scope installed it will shoot less then 1 inch groups with my reloads if I do my part,so your gun should do same, with correct set up and of course practice for the operator.:D
 
If you're a righty:
Shots off to the right - you're slapping the trigger
Shots low - you're anticipating the shot break(bad)
Shots all over - you're not focusing on the front sight tip

Sounds to me like you're not focusing on that front sight tip. You should see a fuzzy ghost ring rear sight, focused front sight post, and fuzzy target. The shot breaking should startle you, not expected. And when the trigger falls, hold it back for 2-3 additional seconds. Hope this helps. Practice Practice Practice.
 
Are your 100 yard groups approximately 4 times as big as your 25 yard groups? If so, this is as it should be, since you are shooting at 4 times the distance. The "cone of dispersion" of your rounds is an angle, which increases as distance to target increases. You should also be about 6" high at 100 yards with a 25 yard zero... which you might not even notice if your groups are 24 MOA.

Take that rifle to an Appleseed ASAP and learn some marksmanship fundamentals!
 
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