What's with all the Carbine AR's?

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jerkface11 said:
A few weeks ago someone posted a chart showing the velocity in .223 with everything from a 22 inch barrel on down. The difference between 20" and 16" wasn't enough to worry about (about 100 FPS). So why not go shorter?
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I didn't see that. Could someone repost it, please?
 
The carbine AR's are easier to handle...not only inside, but outside as well. People like the way it looks.
I had a 20" AR a while back - complete with triangular hand guards :what:

The 16" don't give THAT much up in practical accuracy - yes, it loses velocity and if you are shooting FMJ, fragmentation is an issue, but let's face it, not many of us will have to use AR's in self defense anytime soon - your DA will have a field day with that SD case!

I like it because it is lighter, easier to carry, stash and it looks cool :D
 
HBARs are too heavy.The major manufacturers need to bring back the A1 20 bbl with A2 sites.i'd rather have one of those for the extra velocity.

and

Because 99% of 20" are manufacturing shortcut HBAR's.
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the above hit on oone HUGE reason that many go with a carbine.

about a year ago i bought an Oly "Plinker Plus 20" upper to complete an "A1 clone" for my wife. since Olympic doesn't mention barrel profile for these in the site, and i'd never really dealt with any ARs that didn't fall into one of three categories (SP1/A1, HBAR marked A2, or A2 with the Govt. profile) it never entered my mind that a "plinker" upper would show up with a barrel that weighs more than everything else on the rifle combined. which makes the rifle difficult for me, and impossible for my wife, to fire offhand. AND thus i'm gona wind up either rebarreling my wife's AR or sending it off to Kurt's Kustom to get the existing one re-profiled.

I can imagine many shooters looking at ARs and comparing the carbines and rifles in a shop and thinking "wow these rifle sized ones weigh a TON, but the carbine's ALOT better! I think i know which one I wanna get"
 
The 16" don't give THAT much up in practical accuracy - yes, it loses velocity and if you are shooting FMJ, fragmentation is an issue, but let's face it, not many of us will have to use AR's in self defense anytime soon - your DA will have a field day with that SD case!
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I'd go so far as to say that there is NO inherent difference in accuracy between a 16" and a 20". Personally, I chose to get a 16" midlength with a collapsible stock because an A2 stock is too long for me (I'm 5'1") and I liked the feel of the couple 16" guns I've handled. I also plan on using it as a home defense gun and like the idea of being able to find 20-30 centerfire rifle rounds in such a compact package. edit: the .223 also (supposedly) has less risk of over penetration than 9mm

That being said, plenty of other people have offered good reasons for choosing a 16" barrel, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would give you crap for choosing a 20" barrel. I don't particularly like the looks of carbines either, especially with M4 handguards (that's what got me looking at midlengths to begin with), but to each his own.
 
The 16" gives up a lot in practical accuracy for those who use them with iron sights. The dinky sight radius is noticeably harder to sight with.
 
A midlength only gives up 2" in sight radius (as opposed to 4" for a carbine) to a rifle, and if you want that extra 2" back, you can get one with a rifle-length sight radius (dissipator models). There are advantages and disadvantages to each barrel length, but you can't say that one is quantitatively better than the other.
 
Because the carbine version of an AR15 is the best, most practical version.

It's a short range weapon, meant for CQB-medium range combat. It also works fine for varmint hunting in that length.

How many 20" AK's do you see?
 
Mid length or Dissipator

I just own Colt models so I don't have any in between lengths. Either 16" short handguards short sight radius or 20" light barreled long sight radius.
 
Stores stock what people want to buy. I'll stock anything that will sell. I try to keep some 20 inchers in stock.

That said, I probably sell 5 carbines to every 1 rifle. I can't hardly sell a rifle with a fixed carry handle, nobody wants them.
 
Here you go. Just to show you that not everyone has abandoned the 20" rifle.

2up44qt.jpg

Too bad it does not get to the range that much these days. I am too busy shooting my carbines. :neener:
 
Long & Short of It

I have one of each . . . they satisfy different purposes. One is amazingly accurate; the other compact & handy.
 
I think it's probably several factors all at once.

As previously mentioned, a 20" A2 is big gun for a .223, while a 16" carbine is not.

Collapsible stocks offer some advantges in handling a rifle, and there are many more companies offering collapsible-stocked 16" carbines versus 20" rifles.

The abundance and popularity of the optical sights eliminates the negative of a short sight radius.

For shooting inside 300 yards, the drop off in ballisitic performance in going from a 20" rifle to a 16" carbine is not so great.

As was stated earlier, most people who are buying guns are recreational shooters. A shorter, lighter 16" carbine AR that can fit you better (collapsible stock) that will shoot just as well as a 20" rifle (flattop) at the ranges your are likely to shoot at, will tend to attract buyers.

ARs are now being recognized as excellent CQB/home defense weapons, and is beginning to start challenging the shotgun for use in home protection. If you're keeping something by the bedstand, it is preferable for it to be short and light. This regime is where the carbine really shines when compared to the rifle.

The one place that the carbine stands no chance against the rifle would be in offical Highpower competition. There, you ARE shooting to 600 yards, ARE required to use iron sights, and the longer and heavier 20" rifle is much superior.

At any rate, I don't see the 20" rifles going anywhere soon. They're just being complemented by the carbines.
 
All AR15's are carbines

(well, maybe except those HBAR 24" varmint guns)

BasicTwenty.jpg

Lightweight 20" Govt. profile

LightRifle.jpg

Lightweight 20" A1 profile
 
I think the 20 inch is still handy enough, especially compared to most MBR's. I dont have much experience with the carbines but there is a case to be made that the carbine is better matched to the AR's role as a short-moderate range intermediate cartridge rifle. The extra 4 inches does not make that much of a difference.
 
4" doesn't make a difference when you're outside in the open... but in CQB or a vehicle... that 4" is a huge difference.
 
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