Wheelgun vs Auto long term rate of fire?

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SnWnMe

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Been thinking about this for awhile. Mebbe I should throw it out here and see if anyone of you have real experience on this.

I use the term rate of fire here to describe how fast a gun can be brought back into action after being shot dry.

I am thinking that in the relative safety of a range, an auto has a higher rate of fire than a wheelie UNTIL all the mags are empty. After which the user has to load mags again. In the meantime, the wheelgunner next lane over just keeps throwing six rounds into his gun every time he runs dry and goes back to shooting. I figure that if we let an auto shooter and a wheelgunner shoot as much as they can for one hour, the wheelgunner would've shot more rounds after the alloted time. Whaddaya think?
 
One of the advantages of an autoloader is the speed by which it can be reloaded, and the (usually) greater capacity of a box magazine over a cylinder.

On the other hand a revolver is more often more accurate, not ammunition dependent to operate, and the size of the handle is not dictated by a magazine.

A choice should depend on what purpose(s) the owner may have in mind, and which attributes are most important for the intended task.

So take your pick.
 
I think it may depend on which auto loader as well, I find a single stack 1911 7 round mag loads very quickly where the last few rounds in a Glock double stack nine can get hard without a loading device to help.

It does not take long to casually burn through 100 rounds with my K38. I never really timed it though, I have at times noticed long gaps in shooting from neighboring stalls during reloads. Though my guess would be they are just about even with the edge going to the semi-auto.
 
semi or wheelgun

Each gun serves its purpose,for street ccw i go semi-auto a 45ACP.
for outdoors a 357MAGNUM REVOLVER.
In the city you'l be shooting short range rapid fire.
outdoors you might have time to slow fire from farther away.more accurate
just my personal experience.
 
I agree with Old Fluff. I feel this is another question that has no true anwser but what if my single stack 1911 has a 10 rd clip and your shooter has an SA like a New Model SBH where the cylinder doesn't stop neatly and politely at the loading gate? Maybe my 1911 mag is new and not slippery. This question should be addressed towards those more experienced and let thim have at.:neener: I'll watch.
 
I like wheelguns for civillian SD but rate of fire is a tough call. How likely are you to be in a situation where you are likely to have to reload your magazines in a fight. If you are planning on being in a fight bring lots of magazines. Hell bring rifles and friends with rifles.

Chris.
 
I used booth revolver and auto pistol on duty. I thing I lost about 1 second reloading the revolver ( with speeloader, of course ) compared to auto pistol.

But some people can be very quick when shooting and reloading revolver.
Do you heard about Jerry Miculek ? :D
 
Good for nothing but!

Shove a empty mag in a 1911 type and keep dropping rounds in the chamber.
over a hours time it would burn up lots of rounds.
Do we have to hit anything during this event?
 
Okay, take two guys of equal competence and put them in a gun range.

Let's say Auto guy has the standard two mags that come with most autos these days and unlimited ammo in boxes. The Auto can be a single or a dbl stack.

Revolver guy has nothing but his gun and unlimited ammo in boxes.

Timer starts, they both fire rounds downrange as fast as they can and reloading as fast as they can. They are also provided with buckets of water to dunk and cool the gun so they won't get burnt.

After the alloted time has passed a buzzer signals the end of the shooting period. Let's say 15 to 30 minutes (an hour might melt the guns lol).

At that point, who do you think would have fired the most rounds?

I am thinking wheelgun guy will come out ahead because he seems to have a higher average rate of fire. He doesn't have to pause as long to load. Most of us here can throw rounds into a wheelie two at a time so that speeds things up considerably.
 
Well I guess in a non-practical test like that, the revolver would win.

But in a practical situation, if you give the revolver guy....100 rounds, and you give a guy a Glock 100 rounds in mags, who'd win? What would you rather take with you to fight with?

I guess another argument is stripper clips vs magazines. You can reload the gun just as fast or faster with stripper clips, and you can carry as many with you as you want for cheaper than mags, but if cost was not an object, you'd pick an AK with....10 30 round mags, over an SKS with 30 stripper clips.

I guess it's an interesting thought, though.
 
The autoloader only has a rate of fire advantage as long as the shooter has loaded magazines.

Working out of the ammo box, the revolver has a higher rate of fire.
 
Shove a empty mag in a 1911 type and keep dropping rounds in the chamber. over a hours time it would burn up lots of rounds.
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This would be a great way to end up with a broken extractor. The cartridge rim is supposed to feed under the extractor and up - the extractor isn't supposed to snap over the rim.
 
Well I guess in a non-practical test like that, the revolver would win.
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Why is this non-practical? A new revolver doesn't come with any speedloaders or speedstrips. A new semi-auto comes with at the most 2 magazines. So we have 2 very practical handguns pitted against one another. Nothing is mentioned of game shooting or defensive shooting so the word practical can have a different meaning.
It's funny how so many people tend to overlook just how long it takes to load a magazine and the higher the capacity the longer it takes to load.
 
It's unpractical because you are highly unlikely to run into a situation where you will be shooting for even 5 minutes straight with a handgun let alone 15 or 30. If you're just shooting as fast as you can for 30 minutes, you'll fire way more rounds than someone would typically carry on their person and you'd overheat most guns (because you won't have a water bucket handy in the field). A DA revolver would probably win, because loading mags is slow, but who cares? You're creating a totally contrived situation.

Maybe if we're talking first to 50 rounds with empty guns, mags, and speedloaders. Going to or from the range I often have unloaded guns with the ammo in boxes. I also work in Maryland where you can't transport loaded mags or speedloaders because they're considered firearms. It would be nice to know what type of gun would be "better" in those cases.
 
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But in a practical situation, if you give the revolver guy....100 rounds, and you give a guy a Glock 100 rounds in mags, who'd win? What would you rather take with you to fight with?
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Which of them actually knows how to shoot and can hit something?

How fast you can shoot means nothing if your opponent can put the first shot right between your eyes.
 
It's unpractical because you are highly unlikely to run into a situation where you will be shooting for even 5 minutes straight with a handgun let alone 15 or 30.
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I guess you haven't been to a lot of ranges. The original post speaks of range shooting not carrying a handgun. Also nothing is said of fast shooting. The question is how fast you can get the gun back into action after you shot it dry. No one is creating a contrived situation. You keep trying to alter the senario by creating your own situation or adding limitations.
 
As to the rate of fire, Ed McGivern who was one of the greatest trick shooters used N frame Smiths because autos didn't cycle quick enough. He liked the N frame and used the momentum of the big cylinder to help things along.
 
4fingermick:

No, he much prefered K-frame Smith & Wesson Military & Police models, often equipped with adjustable sights, although he didn't seem to use them. He had at least one .38-44 Heavy Duty, but his records were set with the M&P's.

Once he swapped a .44 Special to Elmer Keith because he didn't like the bigger gun all that much.
 
From my experience at the range, I can go through a box of ammo a lot faster with a revolver than I can with an autoloader. If you have to stop and reload your 2 magazines for your Glock, it takes some time. Without a speedloader, I can still take three rounds at a time and dunk them in a revolver and be back on target in just a few seconds. How long does it usually take someone to reload a magazine for a pistol? Usually a longer period of time if done by hand.

Does this mean anything useful? I dunno, except that I can convert my money into noise a lot faster if I so choose to.
 
I guess you haven't been to a lot of ranges. The original post speaks of range shooting not carrying a handgun. Also nothing is said of fast shooting.
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I'm guessing you didn't read this post by the original poster halfway down the page:
Okay, take two guys of equal competence and put them in a gun range.

Let's say Auto guy has the standard two mags that come with most autos these days and unlimited ammo in boxes. The Auto can be a single or a dbl stack.

Revolver guy has nothing but his gun and unlimited ammo in boxes.

Timer starts, they both fire rounds downrange as fast as they can and reloading as fast as they can. They are also provided with buckets of water to dunk and cool the gun so they won't get burnt.

After the alloted time has passed a buzzer signals the end of the shooting period. Let's say 15 to 30 minutes (an hour might melt the guns lol).

At that point, who do you think would have fired the most rounds?
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If that isn't a test of who can blow through the most ammo the fastest I don't know what is. And it doesn't prove anything except who can blow through ammo the fastest, which as I pointed out, is practically useless information in the grand scheme of things. The revolver guy would probably win, but so what? More rounds fired does not equal more fun or more productive range time. Ok, maybe some people might find it more fun, but I'm not one of them.

Realistically, it probably won't matter on a range. At my range, I amount of time I spend loading guns is much shorter than the amount of time I spend aiming, putting up targets, analyzing my targets, and (I shoot on an outdoor range) waiting for the range to go hot. If I'm shooting an auto I can actually load mags off of the firing line while I wait for a hot range, which I can't do with a revolver. So it probably varies a lot with details and specifics.
 
Rounds per Hour?

IIRC, the basic question was one of "rounds per hour". After reading through all the posts, I went back to the original post to check my memory.

"I use the term rate of fire here to describe how fast a gun can be brought back into action after being shot dry." AND "I figure that if we let an auto shooter and a wheelgunner shoot as much as they can for one hour, the wheelgunner would've shot more rounds after the alloted time. Whaddaya think?"

Practicality and other such "stuff" aside, I believe the basic "who would've shot more rounds per hour" question can be answered without gunfire. All one needs is a revolver, a semi-auto with one magazine, twelve rounds of ammunition and a stop watch or timer.

1) Start timer. Pick up revolver. Swing out cylinder. Load six rounds. Swing cylinder shut. Stop timer.
2) Start timer. Pick up semi-auto. Drop magazine. Thumb six rounds into magazine. Insert magazine. Stop timer.
3) Check times. Shortest time will be the one that would get off the most shots in an hour.

Size of magazine doesn't matter - we're not interested in how many shots can be fired per LOAD, but per HOUR (or any other designated time period). I have assumed the actual rate of fire is the same for both shooters - I can shoot six revolver rounds, (.357 Mag) in about the same time as I can shoot six semi-auto pistol rounds, (.45 ACP).

I will go ahead and ask the question, "What did I miss?" because I already know the THR Folk will be telling me soon.......;) ......
 
With a speed loader, I can reload and present a revolver in under 2 seconds with ease. I can strip a mag and insert a fresh one at about the same rate.

I can carry 2 mags plus one in the weapon. Carry 6 speedloaders? I could, but it'd be weird. Either way, most of the time, it's over in 3 shots. 3 times the ammo means three times the shots fired. remarkably, about the same number of hits either way. Studies done on it. Don't ask me to quote them.
 
SnWnMe: Interesting test. I can only shed a little light on the differences in "reload times" between the two using LEO duty gear.

The test was conducted over a 2 month period every Saturday morning using 10 volunteer Academy students. All reloads were performed in front of a video camera with an internal electronic timer that appeared on the screen, both during taping and during playback. (Except the tests that were done in complete darkness.) Each student reloaded 10 times in good light and 5 times in total darkness. The times were then averaged. Loading methods tested were:

Revolver
1. Load from Pocket
2. Load from Dump Pouch
3. Load from Dump Pouch with Bianchi Speed Strips
4. Load from Loops
5. Load from 2 x 2 x 2 Pouch
6. Load using a Safariland Speed Loader from a Duty Pouch (Snapped in)

Semi-Auto
7. Load unmodified 1911 with standard magazines from a Duty (snapped in) Pouch.

(I'll do my best to remember the times, but it's been quite a while and the second thing that goes after age 60 is one's memory. I can't seem to remember the first.):rolleyes:

If I can't pull up an accurate number from my memory, I'll leave it blank:

1. 16 Seconds Day ||| 22 Seconds Night (Pocket)
2. 13 Seconds Day ||| _________ Night (Dump Pouch)
3. 12 Seconds Day ||| _________ Night (Dump Pouch & Bianchi Speed Strip)
4. 09 Seconds Day ||| 16 Seconds Night (Loops)
5. 08 Seconds Day ||| _________ Night (2 x 2 x 2 Pouch)
6. 5.6 Seconds Day ||| 8 Seconds Night (Speed Loader)
7. 4.3 Seconds Day ||| 6 Seconds Night (1911 Magazine)

Hope that helps.

Rspy,
Kent
 
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