When buying used from a private party
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Sam Adams
Member
I understand the strong desire not to purchase stolen property in general, and especially when the property is a firearm (which might also have been used in a crime). However, if you're buying from a private party I presume that part of the reason you're doing so has to do with not having the transaction recorded anywhere (i.e. no 4473). Calling the police with the serial number (and your name, because they'll have to get back to you) completely defeats this purpose.
A better solution might be to ask to see the seller's DL, make sure that the pic and the seller are the same person, and to have them sign a paper (on which you write the person's DL number and name, along with the make, model, caliber & SN of the gun) in which they state that the gun isn't stolen and wasn't used in a crime, to the best of the Seller's knowledge. Date the paper, so that if the guy (presumeably) lied to you, you can truthfully say "But I didn't own the gun prior to March 15, 2007 - see this paper - so I couldn't have done it". Thus, you're protected legally and morally IF something bad happens, but avoid disclosing your ownership if (as is usually the case) nothing happens. Oh, and carry the mirror image of the document - so the Seller can feel just as confident that he'll be immune from prosecution if you commit a crime after the sale.
A better solution might be to ask to see the seller's DL, make sure that the pic and the seller are the same person, and to have them sign a paper (on which you write the person's DL number and name, along with the make, model, caliber & SN of the gun) in which they state that the gun isn't stolen and wasn't used in a crime, to the best of the Seller's knowledge. Date the paper, so that if the guy (presumeably) lied to you, you can truthfully say "But I didn't own the gun prior to March 15, 2007 - see this paper - so I couldn't have done it". Thus, you're protected legally and morally IF something bad happens, but avoid disclosing your ownership if (as is usually the case) nothing happens. Oh, and carry the mirror image of the document - so the Seller can feel just as confident that he'll be immune from prosecution if you commit a crime after the sale.
Mannlicher
Member
These days, I only buy from private sales. I pay my money, and take my chances. 99% of the time, I don't even know the guy's name, or where he is from.
Zero paperwork.
Zero paperwork.
Sorry --
I want to see a records check for any firearm. I have nothing to hide. I think transfers need some regulation. Private party transfer, handgun, long-gun, it needs to be checked by law enforcement. And there should be a system to ensure that it is and that it's a simple matter to check.
And on that note, I don't think an FFL should be restricted from selling interstate to a CCW holder for a handgun. I live in the USA, I have a CCW. I should be able to buy a handgun from any dealer in any state.
I want to see a records check for any firearm. I have nothing to hide. I think transfers need some regulation. Private party transfer, handgun, long-gun, it needs to be checked by law enforcement. And there should be a system to ensure that it is and that it's a simple matter to check.
And on that note, I don't think an FFL should be restricted from selling interstate to a CCW holder for a handgun. I live in the USA, I have a CCW. I should be able to buy a handgun from any dealer in any state.
RNB65
Member
You can call the local PD and ask them to run it thru NCIC to see if it's listed as stolen. Otherwise, you pays your money and takes your chances. If you want risk free buying, buy a new gun from a retail dealer.
leadcounsel
member
In general, I think it's silly that gun records are necessary. It's a tool like a chainsaw, hammer, or knife and none of these are registered.
However, given todays climate of gun regulations, I think you're a fool if you don't make some record of the transaction. A handwritten or typed bill of sale/transfer identifying the parties, date, serial number, description, drivers license and address and a statement saying both parties legally can sell/buy/possess said weapon is prudent.
Here are some scary scenarios if you fail to make a record. On Jan 1, you buy a gun from Joe. The following June Joe is burgled and "forgets" he sold his pistol to you. Nine years later you use that pistol in a legitimate self defensive shooting and that pistol shows up as reported stolen.... Now, if you can't prove where and when you got it, you've got some serious headache and heartache ahead.
Alternately, Joe could maliciously report it stolen.
Joe could use it in a Christmas shooting spree and sell it to you. Now you've got a weapon used in illegal homicides and no record of who or when or where you bought it.
OR, You sell your pistol or rifle to Joe. Joe buys it intending to commit a murder and dump the weapon. Weapon turns up, ballistics and prints match your weapon and you. You've got some questions to answer and no good answers... "Well, officer, I sold it to this guy a year ago. I don't remember his name but he drove a white car and was wearing a red shirt..."
You get the idea.
In all of my transactions a bill of sale is prudent and will likely scare off the unscrupulous. I check their ID to make sure the are the right identity, age, and also if they are a voter. One tip, if they are not a voter, chances are they might be a felon and it's illegal to sell to that person.
However, given todays climate of gun regulations, I think you're a fool if you don't make some record of the transaction. A handwritten or typed bill of sale/transfer identifying the parties, date, serial number, description, drivers license and address and a statement saying both parties legally can sell/buy/possess said weapon is prudent.
Here are some scary scenarios if you fail to make a record. On Jan 1, you buy a gun from Joe. The following June Joe is burgled and "forgets" he sold his pistol to you. Nine years later you use that pistol in a legitimate self defensive shooting and that pistol shows up as reported stolen.... Now, if you can't prove where and when you got it, you've got some serious headache and heartache ahead.
Alternately, Joe could maliciously report it stolen.
Joe could use it in a Christmas shooting spree and sell it to you. Now you've got a weapon used in illegal homicides and no record of who or when or where you bought it.
OR, You sell your pistol or rifle to Joe. Joe buys it intending to commit a murder and dump the weapon. Weapon turns up, ballistics and prints match your weapon and you. You've got some questions to answer and no good answers... "Well, officer, I sold it to this guy a year ago. I don't remember his name but he drove a white car and was wearing a red shirt..."
You get the idea.
In all of my transactions a bill of sale is prudent and will likely scare off the unscrupulous. I check their ID to make sure the are the right identity, age, and also if they are a voter. One tip, if they are not a voter, chances are they might be a felon and it's illegal to sell to that person.
If you're going to do this, please let the seller know ahead of time. The reason I go to the effort to drive long distances to buy used is to avoid anything akin to registration -- if I had no qualms with the idea of people compiling lists of my possessions I'd just buy from a dealer.
As is, cash on the table is good enough for me. Same goes for just about anything though, with the possible exception of an automobile - hate for someone to do something stupid in a vehicle still registered to me.
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