when did critters get Armor plated?

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I find it quite telling about someone, when they feel all knowing enough to start threads making general statements and stereotypes about things they CLEARLY are not qualified to make. Those of you that have read my recent long range shooting hunting thread will find numerous examples of individuals quick to judge, but ignorant of the facts they are speaking to. I think if you wanted to start a thread to do nothing more than stir the pot, you accomplished your goal. IMHO if you want to be an honest contributor, do it in a productive way with real life examples, data, and experiences, and leave the discussion open to both sides of the debate before you make weak generalizations.
 
make weak generalizations.
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What is weak generalizations about telling a new hunter he can use a 30/30 or an old military rifle with hunting bullet to get started that he does not need to spend a thousand dollars to get started . or that you can get within 100 yards of a deer. here in the midwest we cant use center fire rifles and manage to take thousands of deer each year I have no problem with some one who knows his rifle and practises with it taking any shot he is sure of and is with in the limits of his weapon ammo combination I have taken several deer at 400 yards I took a feral dog [was assisting dog warden] 732 paces. I have rifles capable and I have the abilty to shoot long range I do not encorage new hunter to shoot long range I encorage them to get close.
A lot of young people do not have the money to shoot a rifle enough to have any busness taking a long range shot at todays ammo prices if you only shoot the week before gun season you have no busness shooting past point blank rifle of you rifle my point is that a lot of people on the web and the gun magazines lead you to beleive that if you can't shoot 500 yards and don't kill something every time you step out the door you might as well stay on the couch And that that discorages new hunters and we need all the news hunters we can get
Roy
 
Go back and re-read your original post. You claim to be the self proclaimed authority on the definition of a "Hunter". According to your definition, I am not. So be it.
 
From Post #1: "A Trophy buck killed at 600 yards or a gobler at 50+ yards shows me you have good equipment a 5 year old doe kill at 10 yards or a turkey killed with a 410 with Winchester AA's tell me you are a HUNTER."

Which as most folks know who have any significant number of years around a campfire know isn't the definition of much of anything.

Killing a buck at 600 yards says you're a highly competent shooter--and doesn't at all mean you are unable to stalk and get up close if you want to.

Killing a gobbler with a shotgun at 50 yards just says you're using a very tight choke on whatever shotgun is used.

Killing a doe at ten yards just means you can sit still in ambush.

Using a .410 with AAs on a turkey just means you are patient, are a good caller--most likely--and are patient. But that doesn't keep you from also being good at 600 yards with a rifle.

My point is that none of this stuff is mutually exclusive. I've killed deer in Ma Bell style and I've killed deer up close and personal. To me, it's a bunch of, "So what?" I've hipshot quail. So what? I've gotten triples on doves with an extra-full pattern from an old Model 12. So what?

IMO, the only thing that counts is a clean kill. Period. Everybody has his own style and "druthers". Leave it at that.

Art
 
. . . there are still men who believe that "hunting" includes getting as close as possible, both for the sake of the animal and the sake of "sport". Those men, oddly enough, seem to be the same people who find that the '06 is more than enough and the .25 Bob, 6.5 Swede, and 7 Mauser all work perfectly.
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A 6.5x55 properly applied at a reasonable distance will humanly and quickly drop an elk. That your buddy has a 300 Ultra Mag and gives you some BS about being under gunned for elk, well opinions and all that. It's funny when the same buddy gets the snot pounded out of him so bad he flinches and misses his elk. Not to mention the wife and I can shoot 50+ practice rounds with our 6.5x55's with no sore shoulder and our friend . . . well he's done after one box of twenty usually. The cost of the ammo, and though he'll rarely admit it, sore shoulder is what ends his practice sessions. My practice ends when my eyes get tired or I run out of ammo, usually the eyes.
 
if you only shoot the week before gun season you have no busness shooting past point blank
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your buddy has a 300 Ultra Mag and gives you some BS about being under gunned for elk
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These seem to be a couple of recurring themes that I find questionable.
Shooting a rifle is a little like riding a bicycle. It doesn't take a lot of practice to shoot good groups off of some type of rest. I never could shoot worth a crap without a rest whether I practiced or not.

I have hunted all over the US and Canada and I can't remember the last time anybody even asked me what I was using. Much less make some know it all comment over too big or too small.
 
Killing a buck at 600 yards says you're a highly competent shooter...
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Or just an idiot who got lucky.

And that's why I get all fired up on this issue: I've seen those idiots in action and I've seen the results, both lucky and not. I know, on one level, that there are people who can make that shot with the same chance of success that I have at half that distance or less, and my rational side says "More power to them".

But my gut finds it more convenient to lump all the long-rangers into one category, the label for which does not include the word "competent". That's unfair, so I apologize to any talented long-range hunters who take offense at what I write.

But I can't resist noting that, without exception, the idiots whanging away (universally armed with the latest-greatest magnum) at game far beyond their ability fully believe themselves to be marksmen in every sense of the word. So again, by way of explanation and with all due respect to the truly competent out there, I figure the odds are that any single person tapping away at the internet about his long-range expertise is, well, deceiving himself, at best. And while we all engage in self-deception at one time or another, it's a shame when our great game animals suffer because of it.
 
.38 Special. That's one way to look at it.

On the other hand, I play golf, but I would be presumptuous to tell Tiger Woods what he can or cannot do.
 
I'm not telling anyone what they can or cannot do. I'm just saying that when some stranger on the internet is boasting that he hits just as well as Tiger Woods, smart money is against it.
 
if you only shoot the week before gun season you have no busness shooting past point blank
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Well I don't think I agree with that statement.

Dad was 84 last fall when he shot his deer and about the only time his deer rifle is shot is to check the scope just before hunting season. But then he has told me of the rabbit hunting he and his buddy's did in the 30's when they would pool their money to buy one box of 22's.

When you learn how to hunt/shoot and make shots count you don't forget.
As a kid I would sometimes leave the house with 3 bullets when I had lots more, and try my best to come home with 3 rabbits. I shoot thousands of rounds every year but I betcha lessons learned as a kid are still with me.

I am not special anyone can shoot just a few times a year and do fine once you learn to make em count. Better if you shoot more? Yes, but not a requirement.

Hunting and knowing when to shoot and when not to, then hitting your intended target can be a whole lot different that sitting at a bench and punching holes in paper. Shooting at the range or off a bench is a good thing but entirely different than killing critters under not always so perfect conditions..
 
The biggest rifle I have is a 30-06 and I have never been undergunned. I got caught up in the "got to have a mag" craze when I was a teen, and bought a 300 Win Mag. I still have recoil issues that come up every now and again because of that damn gun. Only gun purchase I regret. I traded for a 6mm and am very happy I did. I say shoot the most you can handle, but be realistic, most can't shoot more than a 30-06.
 
It is not the firearm and caliber it's the shooters. If the shot is bad then more power does help. If some folks would just learn proper shot placement and correct range estimation then lesser sized calibers would be more effective.
 
.38special, I've been mderating the rifle forums at TFL and at THR since I first began at TFL in 1999. I've read a lot of posts in a lot of threads.

By and large, we've had very few folks come through who are just blowing smoke about their shots.

And, by and large, I sorta doubt that we have many folks post here who just shoot some sight-in and then one or two Bambi shots a year. THR isn't what they're interested in.

For myself, I've never practiced beyond 500 yards. I haven't bothered to learn the bullet drop beyond 500. Generally, my personal comfort limit is around 400. But with some practice and knowledge of the drop, a laser rangefinder and a good rest during a dead-calm time of day? Sure, I'd take that long shot and expect to hit where I intended.
 
I'm like Art. I print off ballistics tables up to 500 and no more. Longest shot I've taken to date was a little over 330 yards. I'm comfortable out to 400 as most cartridges drop under 2 feet at that range. Most shots I've taken on deer are 100 to 200 yards. For nighttime predator hunting with the red spotlight, shots average 50 yards. Sometimes I can get pretty close to deer, other times the long shot is the only option. A few weeks ago, I had a herd of mule deer feeding all around me. I was standing on a rim up near some cedars. The herd just worked their way up the hill, and next thing I know, I'm surrounded. I've never stood frozen for so long in my life. Seemed like hours. Other times, I have spooked deer from 300 yards away.

Moral of story?

Each situation, location, etc is unique.

I'm just happy to be in the field. I'm not a big blind hunter, but I'll never pass up an opportunity to do that. In fact, I'm heading to SE Mississippi on Saturday for a deer hunting trip. It's much different than the West Texas cedar canyon hunting I am used to. I'm thinking about using a .45-70 Trapdoor. I think 405gr leaving the muzzle at 1400fps should handle whitetail, doncha think?
 
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