When did H414 and W760 become clones

[Bird Dog II]

So I have read in several places how these two are the exact same powder now. I've read in enough places to believe that in current production, it is true. However, my trusty old 4th edition Hornady Manual has significantly different load date for the two in .22-250. So my question is, when did the begin to "equal"?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

They were always made in the same plant and they may or may not have been exactly the same before Hodgdon took over distribution of Winchester powders but there is no doubt now, verified but the manufacturer and Hodgdon. It's said they were always the same and I believe that to be true. The differences in load data come from several things including lot numbers, testing methods and barrel lengths used in testing.

 

[rcmodel]

In March 2006, Hodgdon® Powder Company and Winchester Ammunition announced that Winchester branded reloading powders would be licensed to Hodgdon.

At that point, Hodgdon begin doing all the packaging and distrubution of Winchester powders here in Kansas.

And filling the cans out of the same bulk shipments from St. Marks Powder in Florida.

To conferm they are now the same go to Hodgdons data site and compair the load for the two powders.
They are the same.
http://www.hodgdon.com/#

Older manuals and even newer ones may not have ran new pressure tests on everything since 2006, and the published data still reflects that.

rc

 

[Bird Dog II]

So, I understand lot differences and have been reloading for 25 or 30 years. I know in general not to mix lots and I have never done this. I have about 1/5 of a can of each left. So, 2/5 of a pound. The H414 I got probably seven years ago and the 760 about three. With the caveat that I'm not really going to push near max levels, can I just combine what I have left and load up some .30-06 with 53.0 to 54.5 grains and with 165 grain Hornady BTSPs? 54.5 would be 2 grains less than Hodgdon's current max for both with 165 grain Sie BTSPs and it's 3 to 4 grains below Hornady's 4th addition data for both.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I can't tell you what to do, only you know what you feel is safe. It's general knowledge like you said not to mix powders but in this case I would mix those 2 and shake the can well. That's just what i would do, I'm not telling you to do that.

 

[witchhunter]

Me too, mix em, against all common warnings. In your case it sounds right.

 

[rcmodel]

With the caveat that I'm not really going to push near max levels, can I just combine what I have left

Just don't come back here whining that you need some more of the exact same powder cause you shot the first 1/4" group in your life with it!

rc

 

[Nick Antrillo]

I don't mix powders and shake them up.

1/5 of a can is 1400 grains (assuming a 1 pound can) which is 25 rounds of 30-06
at 54.5 grains per round. Plenty enough to finish one can and then go to the other.
After shooting 25 rounds of one can, I would make a couple test rounds to verify
that the other can shoots the same. Make minor adjustments as required.

No real need to Shake-N-Bake when you have enough in each can for 25 rounds.
That's a lotta 30-06. Your shoulder will remind you of it presently.


But like Angel says, we can't tell you what to do. You make the safe and wise choice for yourself.

 

[Nick Antrillo]

Just don't come back here whining that you need some more of the exact same powder cause you shot the first 1/4" group in your life with it!

rc

Too funny! You crack me up, brother!

 

[Bird Dog II]

To be totally honest with you RC, this very can of 414, with 56.0 grains pushing 165 Nosler Ballistic Tips did produce the best group of my life. From a $199 Stevens 200 no less! A dime would have covered it and it was from 115 yds. Follow-ups weren't quite as good, but confirmed it was no fluke.

 

[Bird Dog II]

I am not sure why Hodgdon would keep both types in the market as they are clearly the same at present.

 

[Bird Dog II]

1/5 of a can is 1400 grains (assuming a 1 pound can) which is 25 rounds of 30-06
at 54.5 grains per round. Plenty enough to finish one can and then go to the other.
After shooting 25 rounds of one can, I would make a couple test rounds to verify
that the other can shoots the same. Make minor adjustments as required.

No real need to Shake-N-Bake when you have enough in each can for 25 rounds.
That's a lotta 30-06. Your shoulder will remind you of it presently.

Well, I haven't weighed them. I thinking it's actually less than 1/5. Just judging by how they feel, it feels like less than 20 rounds worth each. So 1/6 maybe? I just wanted to load one good batch for some range work. I may just load two separate batches. That why I'm looking for input.

 

[savanahsdad]

load 10 with one can and 10 with the other can then mix and shake well then load 10 , and see how it works out , and let us know ,

 

[Bird Dog II]

Haha!

Here's the thing savanahsdad.....these are going to be shot in a Model 70 Featherweight than kicks like friggin mule. So I can tell you from experience, the first 6 or 8 I shoot will be the best, regardless!:banghead:

 

[rcmodel]

I am not sure why Hodgdon would keep both types in the market as they are clearly the same at present.

Same reason GM makes Chevy & GMC pick-ups on the same body.

Brand loyality.

It will be years from now before everyone is convinced they are both the same powders.
Or pick-ups.

And in the meantime, they can sell both to the same people that won't use anything else.

rc