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When does "POLICE" mean police?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by F4GIB, Oct 28, 2004.

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  1. F4GIB

    F4GIB Member

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    Couple Beaten After Home Invasion By Men Posing As Law Enforcement Officers

    Shelby County, TN - Shelby County Sheriff’s Deputies are looking for at least four, possibly five men today, who barged their way into a couple’s home in south-east Shelby County.

    The couple was severely beaten. The couple told Sheriff’s Deputies they awakened about 4:30 this morning when several men banged at the back door at their home, which is located in the 9400 block of Plantation Lake Road near Collierville. The men wore ski masks and black shirts that said “POLICE.†All of the men, armed with pistols, were yelling, “Police! F.B.I.! Open Up!†As the couple answered the door, the men barged their way inside the house demanding money.

    They forced the lady to take them through the house ransacking various rooms. Not finding any money, the men beat the woman and her husband with their pistols and a cue stick from a pool table. The couple was then taken to a bathroom where their feet were bound with duct tape.

    The man was able to free himself and call for Sheriff’s Deputies on a cell phone that was lying on a bedside table not far from the bathroom. Investigators say the couple had no idea who the men were or why they would come to their home. * * *

    http://www.wreg.com/global/story.asp?s=2481157&ClientType=Printable
     
  2. nico

    nico Member

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    That's a really tough situation, but at 4:30AM, I'd be answering the door with a gun in hand and noone claiming to be a cop would be allowed into the house until I had called 911 to confirm (not to say they wouldn't/couldn't kick down the door, just that I wouldn't willingly let them in). The ski masks would be a hint that they weren't cops.
     
  3. davec

    davec Member

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  4. nico

    nico Member

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    I'd (like to) think at least one person wouldn't have had their face covered. You'd (I'd?) think they wouldn't send in a swat team with helmets, ski masks, and all that other stuff if they had anything less than a no-knock warrant. Still, at 4:30AM, anyone knocking on my door is going to have to kick it down or wait for me to verify who they are.
     
  5. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    Present the warrant to the window for inspection and wait for a corroborating call the cop shop. If it passes muster, then the door opens.

    As I've said before.

    Door kickers are hostile borders, and will we dealt with as such.

    NO EXCEPTIONS
     
  6. sendec

    sendec member

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    :rolleyes:

    Balaclava or hood is the correct name. They are occasionally worn to protect the identity of the wearer. They are normally worn to protect the otherwise exposed skin of the face from burns due to pyrotechnics, chemicals or gases.
     
  7. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Member

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    to-may-to, to-mah-to
    same difference.


    0400 hours knocking at my back door, it ain't likely to be a girl scout sellin' cookies. :scrutiny:
     
  8. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    They need to catch these lowlifes and quick. Hopefully the FBI is on the investigation. It's probably too much for Shelby locals to figure out.
     
  9. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Same old story ...

    Can't tell if they are criminals pretending to be cops, or cops pretending to be criminals.

    What's the difference, anyway :confused:
     
  10. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

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    Years back I was served a subpoena for a law suit at 4:30am by a plain clothed detective.
    I made him call the dispatcher and have her call the house to verify who he was.
    When asked for my number, I said your the police, you can get it.
    He was not a happy camper but complied.

    I told him you can't be too careful.
     
  11. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

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    This has been reported multiple times in Phoenix newspapers (not including the fake cops who pull over drivers).

    Since I am not a felon, I can logically assume that these are crooks not cops.

    I wouldn't be answering the door with a pistol. I would take a long gun, preferably a FAL or AR.

    And if they breeched the door before I could answer it, I would take offense.

    Rick
     
  12. Carlos Cabeza

    Carlos Cabeza Member

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    Say hello to my lil' friend !..............................................................
     
  13. Yooper

    Yooper Member

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    That's a tough call! Not everyone has the presence of mind at 4:30 in the morning to put the intruders to the test, especially under stress.
    Here in Michigan, handguns are submitted to local police departments for a "safety" inspection after purchase, long guns are not inspected (I guess they're all safe enough!). This lets the police know that the homeowner will likely be armed if they respond to a call at that address. Still, even being aware of all this, I might hesitate to pull the trigger on something marked "POLICE", and that's what the intruders are counting on.
    Mandatory doubling of sentences involving police impersonation are only effective after the fact, if at all.
     
  14. Chipperman

    Chipperman Member

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    The first clue should have been when they shouted "Police" first, followed by "FBI". :scrutiny:
     
  15. DRZinn

    DRZinn Member

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    "Go away, *sshole, and come back at a reasonable hour."
     
  16. artherd

    artherd member

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    They said "POLICE" ***AND*** "FBI"?

    Yeah, and there's no legitimite need for machineguns in public citizen's hands...
     
  17. tc300mag1

    tc300mag1 Member

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    Hum thats a true answer the door with a heater handy. Ive had a cop knock on the door at 2:3 am one time he was in uniform and i could see the car and still didnt open the door they were looking for escaped prisoner but still at 230 in the morn i wasnt taking chances i had the 45 in hand when i opened the wood deviding door
     
  18. sendec

    sendec member

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    Point of Info-

    Many "non-police" use the phrase "police" in a situation like this as it is generic, understood by almost everyone, and sounds roughly the same in a couple different languages. Bellowing out "United States Department of Interior Office of Surface Mining and Reclamation Special Agent!" as you are booting the door can lead to confusion.

    Maybe not so oddly, and relevent to this case, the FBI is one of those that dont usually, probably because, hey, they are the FBI and not real cops anyway, (Snirk:p)
     
  19. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    I get a good laugh every time one of these threads gets posted and the testoserone starts flowing, chests start getting beaten, and the sensationalized bravado comes out, and for many when this happens, good reasoning goes right out the window.

    Sindawe provides a great example of this. Of course the cops are not going to come to the window and display the warrant for visual inspection and then wait while Sindawe confirms things with 911, but he has put us all on notice that those are his terms and if the police or anyone else isn't operating on his terms, then he used the really big font size to let us know that there will be no execptions.

    While it is a tough call for any of us who might have a home invasion happen and while we all may react with a display of force, if it is the cops when this happens, then there is a very strong likelihood that we may all end up dead, potentially along with some of our loved ones.

    I know, about this time there are those who are thinking that "Well, at least I will take a few of them with me." Good logic, sort of Vietnam body count logic. What does it matter to you just how many you take with you if you or your loved ones end up dead?

    Sindawe, the cops won't be there on your terms. That is why they have a warrant. It means they are not interested in your terms and the court has backed them on making entry on their terms. If they have a warrant for your address, mistaken or otherwise, they aren't coming to your window and presenting it for your inspection, regardless of whatever big font post you make here. With a warrant, your terms don't mean squat to them at that time and they will continue to operate with you as they would the felons they perceive to be within your address. Of course, they will be there in full body armor, rifles, shotguns, and pistols at the ready, flashbangs, hearing protetion and com gear, and you will be caught off guard, with no armor, and not ready when the event starts. Remember, they are anticipating an armed response and have prepared for it. You probably don't camp out at each of your entrances 24/7, waiting on high alert, for just such an invasion.

    In the example story of the start of the thread, the bad guys yelled both Police and FBI. As pointed out, obviously they would not do this if they were who they claimed to be, right? Maybe, maybe not. I have seen joint operations where members of each announce their branch on entry, as if all the names matter. I guess it is just what they are used to yelling when they serve warrants. Even if it isn't a joint or multi-department task force serving the warrant, but bad guys, yelling different names serves a very good purpose. It introduces confusion to the people within the abode. That extra half second, full second, or couple of seconds the mind is engaged in reasoning out why different names are being used by the invaders are amounts of time that are lost to the brain where the brain could be performing other functions relative to survival.
     
  20. BSlacker

    BSlacker Member

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    Well lets see here. The couple had time to respond to banging sounds at the back door of the house. In a professional raid with you asleep or in another part of the house you won't have time to respond to banging at the back door the common back door will explode and entry will follow about the time your feet hit the floor. That is the why the Police train for this so they will prevail in the common arena. Almost all but the most poorly equiped departments will have the means to shred the back door. BTW it is Aholes that will bang around at the back door awhile before gaining entry. If you hear banging around go full tilt to the door armed and angry cause it is not the local PD banging around out there. On the other hand if you wake up to the door exploding and a bunch of funny dressed people around you before your feet hit the ground, it don't matter who they are your theirs. :)
     
  21. hammer4nc

    hammer4nc Member

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    This does pose a dilemma. Thugs posing as SWAT. Double naught spy is invited to post his recommended response to this situation. Feel free to use any size font, other members will infer testosterone level accordingly.:eek:
     
  22. Carlos Cabeza

    Carlos Cabeza Member

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    It's pretty sad when we're so divided we can't even define the "nuances" between thugs posing as FBI, SWAT etc. and the real deal legitimate agencies in a hypothetical scenario. F*** it! I refuse to sit back and be victimized no matter who it is ! The real agents need to MAKE SURE they are at the right address AND their warrant has merit and validity. Given some of the responses, I'm thinking the only real protection an innocent family might have is a heavily fortified door and a trip charge underneath the welcome mat. I aplogize if my post is a bit emotionally charged but there sure is an extremely obvious line that has been drawn.

    Edited for language not suited for viewing by Art's grammaw
     
  23. CannibalCrowley

    CannibalCrowley Member

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    Double Naught Spy
    And if it isn't the cops and you allow them in, then you and your family will be just as dead. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    Of course if one hasn't been a part of any major illegal activites, then the cops shouldn't be invading one's home. This means that the resident would be justified in believing the intruders were not police.
     
  24. Guntalk

    Guntalk Member

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    How about . . . .

    When you hear banging at the door at 4:00am or so, first, call 911. Tell them what's going on, and that you are armed, and will wait for the police to get there.

    If they say, those ARE the police at your door, then you can go open your door.

    Otherwise, DON'T GO TO THE DOOR.

    Lock the bedroom door. Stay on the phone with 911.

    Take whatever action you deem necessary if anyone tries to break down the bedroom door. Remember that there is a 911 tape rolling of the event. You may want to provide narration.
     
  25. Mark13

    Mark13 Member

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    It seems that this isn't a police or not police problem, but an inadequate door problem. The stronger the door the more options you have. Sure, real law enforcement has the explosives to take out any door, but I've never heard of bad guys using explosives to gain entry?
     
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