brasskeeper
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Good answer
when should a gun/cartridge be put up?
- Thread starter Bezoar
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Good answer
MCgunner
Member
Just one thing, the .257 Roberts is a 300 yard + gun, properly loaded, of course. I turned down a .25-06 I won, well, actually I traded it for a .308 I really wanted because I figured my .257 had .25 caliber covered.
I see lots of redundancy in stuff like .30TC. Heck, Savage pretty much had THAT niche covered with the .300, let alone when the .308 Winchester came along. The short magnums, there are some new good ones, but they're mostly about short action handy hunting rifles rather than ballistics we've never seen before. Not every new caliber is an improvement. In fact, 99 percent of 'em are redundant IMHO. There's some new stuff that raises my eyebrow for some applications, but I ain't selling any of my older guns. I'd be perfectly happy with a caliber .30 model of 1906, tell ya the truth. It'll take anything I'll ever get to hunt and do it to as far as I want to shoot at game. I have a 7mm Rem Mag I never use as it is.
Yeah, the .30-30 has been eclipsed. I guess that's why you can't find .30-30 ammo anywhere, but Bass Pro and they don't make any new guns in the caliber anymore? No, it can't shoot 2400 yards and hit a deer, but then, I can't see 2400 yards. Most deer I've ever killed in my life have been under 150 yards and the .30-30 will do that. I mean, you can always get closer if you're a hunter, right? It's not the greatest caliber out west, but I've seen more'n a few toted in the New Mexico mountains. That said, I have never been into lever guns that much. I had a .30-30 Savage M340 that was REALLY accurate and I loaded spitzers in it (box magazine) It was a true 300 yard deer rifle with spitzers. I currently load the Nosler BT in my .30-30 Contender.
I did follow the above scenario I suppose, though, LOL. I sold the .30-30 to an Uncle and later got a .308, a step up in power and just about right IMHO. But, I know the .30-30 can do the job. It's not like no one buys 'em anymore, either. I'm as guilty as anyone of stuffing my nose into exterior ballistics tables. That's really a bad habit for a hunter, I guess, especially when your longest possible shot is maybe 200 yards, LOL!
I turned down a .25-06 I won, well, actually I traded it for a .308 I really wanted because I figured my .257 had .25 caliber covered. I see lots of redundancy in stuff like .30TC. Heck, Savage pretty much had THAT niche covered with the .300, let alone when the .308 Winchester came along. The short magnums, there are some new good ones, but they're mostly about short action handy hunting rifles rather than ballistics we've never seen before. Not every new caliber is an improvement. In fact, 99 percent of 'em are redundant IMHO. There's some new stuff that raises my eyebrow for some applications, but I ain't selling any of my older guns. I'd be perfectly happy with a caliber .30 model of 1906, tell ya the truth. It'll take anything I'll ever get to hunt and do it to as far as I want to shoot at game. I have a 7mm Rem Mag I never use as it is.
Yeah, the .30-30 has been eclipsed. I guess that's why you can't find .30-30 ammo anywhere, but Bass Pro and they don't make any new guns in the caliber anymore?
No, it can't shoot 2400 yards and hit a deer, but then, I can't see 2400 yards. Most deer I've ever killed in my life have been under 150 yards and the .30-30 will do that. I mean, you can always get closer if you're a hunter, right? It's not the greatest caliber out west, but I've seen more'n a few toted in the New Mexico mountains. That said, I have never been into lever guns that much. I had a .30-30 Savage M340 that was REALLY accurate and I loaded spitzers in it (box magazine) It was a true 300 yard deer rifle with spitzers. I currently load the Nosler BT in my .30-30 Contender. I did follow the above scenario I suppose, though, LOL. I sold the .30-30 to an Uncle and later got a .308, a step up in power and just about right IMHO.
But, I know the .30-30 can do the job. It's not like no one buys 'em anymore, either. I'm as guilty as anyone of stuffing my nose into exterior ballistics tables. That's really a bad habit for a hunter, I guess, especially when your longest possible shot is maybe 200 yards, LOL!koja48
member
having to track a wounded animal some distance
I heartily agree with the "marketing ploy" concept, however, my Dad sure as hell didn't have to track many . . . and "back then," when folks relied on wild game to feed their families, wounding & possibly losing an animal wasn't an option! Those who think "more power" is the answer, should stick with watching Home Improvement . . . and anyone who relies solely on a "brain shot," is lacking any vestige of knowledge relative to what a high-percentage, humane, universally-acceptable, objective point-of-aim on a big game animal really is, plus they must have an exaggerated opinion of their marksmanship ability in hunting situations, IMHO. Flat-shooting & ultra-powerful magnum cartridges have their bona-fide uses, but "making-up" for inferior hunting/shooting skills is not on that list of applications. Unfortunately, there are still far too many "if I hit it with this baby, it'll go down" types in the woods & fields.
I heartily agree with the "marketing ploy" concept, however, my Dad sure as hell didn't have to track many . . . and "back then," when folks relied on wild game to feed their families, wounding & possibly losing an animal wasn't an option! Those who think "more power" is the answer, should stick with watching Home Improvement . . . and anyone who relies solely on a "brain shot," is lacking any vestige of knowledge relative to what a high-percentage, humane, universally-acceptable, objective point-of-aim on a big game animal really is, plus they must have an exaggerated opinion of their marksmanship ability in hunting situations, IMHO. Flat-shooting & ultra-powerful magnum cartridges have their bona-fide uses, but "making-up" for inferior hunting/shooting skills is not on that list of applications. Unfortunately, there are still far too many "if I hit it with this baby, it'll go down" types in the woods & fields.
351 WINCHESTER
Member
Ammo makers have come up with a lot of new ctgs. lately. Will they stand the test of time. I have my doubts. The tried and proven .30-30, .30-06, .308win., 35 rem., .45-70, .270win. and others are here to stay.
It's ok to put up a rifle to keep it in good conditon and is a real joy to take it out on occasion and shoot it for old times sake. It's even better to take it hunting on occasion too. Better yet, it's a real thrill to kill a deer/hog with it.
There are a lot of people who wouldn't think of hunting with anything less than a .270 or .300 mag for whitetails. Nothing wrong if that's your game, but under normal hunting condiotions just a waste of powder and meat.
It's ok to put up a rifle to keep it in good conditon and is a real joy to take it out on occasion and shoot it for old times sake. It's even better to take it hunting on occasion too. Better yet, it's a real thrill to kill a deer/hog with it.
There are a lot of people who wouldn't think of hunting with anything less than a .270 or .300 mag for whitetails. Nothing wrong if that's your game, but under normal hunting condiotions just a waste of powder and meat.
Your dad must be a pretty good shot.
But that's kind of part of my point, though. Nowadays, very few people hunt for sustenence. I mean, they still eat the meat, but it's not strictly necessary; they can still afford to go to the supermarket and buy meat there. But back then, if you didn't quite get a clean hit, then you'd have to track that animal if you want to eat. And people weren't going to be as likely to be able to afford the latest and greatest gun.
Also, the people I know who go for brain shots exclusively, have yet to lose a deer. They don't get one every year, but when they take the shot, they have nailed 'em. And all their shots have been inside of 75 yards. Two of them approach it more like bow hunting, stalking in close to the deer in order to be able to score a clean headshot. The other one relies on scents, calls, and luck to draw them in close.
koja48
member
WAS an excellent shot & WAS an even better hunter. And I still stand on my opinion: ". . . is lacking any vestige of knowledge relative to what a high-percentage, humane, universally-acceptable, objective point-of-aim on a big game animal really is." Pin-point accuracy & tiny groups happen to be a passion of mine, but I would NEVER attempt a head-shot on a game animal. To each his/her own.
koja48
member
Thanks, eliphalet!
T.R.
Member
The older cartridges haven't gone bad. Its just that magazine writers get paid handsomely to push the latest and greatest. Outdoor Life hunting articles read like extended commercials. So it goes.
This is my friend Bill. He has hunted in Pennsylvania every fall since the late 1940s. His iron sighted Winchester is chambered for 32 Special. This ammo is getting harder to find every year but Bill would not consider trading for a scoped modern rifle since he doesn't perceive the need. The deer just topple over when hit hard through the chest and Bill doesn't fret about charts or premium bullets either.
35 Remington is still a keeper. Modern Hornady ammo has launched its trajectory to make kill shots out to 225 yards or so! No kidding.
TR
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