When Should I enlist?

[Essex County]

This one is a toughie......advantages on both sides of the argument. Objectivly being an officer has a number of advantages but, there is no shame in going enlisted. I enlisted in 1966 after two years of college. (ran out of money) I had a ball and the social life was great. In my hitch in the AirForce I learned a lot about myself and the ability to deal with others. I later got my degree with the help of the G.I. Bill. Absolutley no regrets on my part. Essex

 

[Oleg Volk]

I think the point made was that US Army and Marines have long been used as gratuitously offensive entities, not always for defense of the country. A good example being getting involved in the war between Japan and China in the late 30s (as "volunteers" but with US government aircraft).

 

[Nobody's_Hero]

If you do enlist, do so with the understanding that your foremost duty is to defend the Constitution of the United States of America. Take your oath seriously.

I wish you the best.

 

[Ithaca37]

I guess my main motivation is the idea that I need to earn the blessings I am, will be, and have been given by my country, and I don't think paying your taxes is enough.

Not to be an ass, but I assume -since you see service as paying a debt- that you will not be planning on utilizing veterans benefits, correct? I am not trying to criticize your attitude, but you must seriously evaluate why you REALLY want to enlist. The I OWE my country BS doesn't jive with the reality. If you are really paying a debt, then society doesn't owe you anything after you serve.

Furthermore, the notion that military service is the only way to contribute to your country is just plain stupid. Good luck fighting a war without tax dollars. See how long the ammo and gasoline keeps coming if everyone decides to stop paying. Good luck fighting without weapons, because without the engineers and factory workers, you have nothing. Good luck fighting without the farmers who feed the workers who make the equipment you fight with and provide food to you when you are deployed. Before you go belittling everyone else because they have chosen a different path, stop to think how lucky you are that they will be paying your salary and buying your equipment.

Having said that good luck with whatever choice you make. My 2 cents would be: go to college. You might just enjoy not having others tell you what to do everyday. There are other ways to have a positive impact on your country and your fellow countrymen.

 

[Bailey Guns]

I say, go for it!

Except, I'd advise you to enlist in the Air Force and try out for one of the combat-oriented specialties such as TACP, Combat Controller or Para-rescue. They are truly the elite of the military, equal to any of the other services top-notch combat outfits.

You'll get the best training, best equipment, best assignments, esprit de corps as good as any other, great re-enlistment bonuses (up to 150k) and plenty of action to keep you busy. You will belong to a truly elite force. You won't get the attention the other high-speed outfits get but that's not the point anyway.

Not knockin' the other services. But ask the Army or Marine guys who gets the best of everything. They'll tell you with just a little bit of jealousy in their voices, "The AF".

On the other hand, my second choice would have been the Marines and I oftentimes wonder if they would have suited my mindset a little better. But, I certainly have no regrets.

Good for you. I wish you well.

 

[strat81]

If the OP is still reading this...

Get your degree. Do it now while you are mentally and physically able to do it. While being a soldier or a Marine is great, life doesn't always work out as planned. Even if you plan on making a career out of military service today, you might change your mind. Having that four-year degree will help you if you decide to change.

See if you can find a school that offers ROTC or consider the reserves as others have mentioned. Get a taste and see if it's for you.

By the time I decided on looking into military service, I was physically unable to serve due to joint replacements (at 26 years old). If I could go back and do it again, I'd look at an officer program after finishing college.

If you go the path of serving... thank you, and stay safe.

 

[bogie]

Well, Army can beat Navy - do the Marines even HAVE a football team?

(grin)

Ask yourself: WHAT REALLY ROCKS MY WORLD? Think more than a month ahead.

The military has jobs in all sorts of fields. But if you are thinking in terms of an eventual career as a computer programmer/network admin type, there are better areas than the Corps... The military gives you a chance to LEARN things - not just lower/middle management stuff, but stuff that'll go for career type stuff... For instance, it's -really- hard to outsource "specialized aircraft mechanic" to China, and my bud's kid, when he pulls the pin, is going to be making over $100K...

You may say it's not about the money. Fine. But money's good, and if it's there, go for it.

 

[RKCheung]

I was in your boat 10 years ago. I wanted to pay back my country for all the freedoms I've been given so I enlisted in the Marine Corps Reserve and went to college at the same time. Well, 5 years later President Bush graciously offered to risk my life in a fruitless and futile endeavor in Iraq, which has damaged our country much more than it has any hand in defending it.

My advice to you? Go to college, get an education, and mature a little bit. You may be a different person 4 years from now. Hopefully by then, someone with a better grasp on foreign affairs will be in office. If you still are set on joining up at that time, then do so as officer.

 

[Robert Hairless]

I guess my main motivation is the idea that I need to earn the blessings I am, will be, and have been given by my country, and I don't think paying your taxes is enough.

This thread should be useful to you. Think carefully about whether you want to put your life on your line to protect the kinds of people who scorn your motives and judgment and degrade their own country.

These are talkers and takers who understand nothing of the tradition to which you belong. Although they profit from those like you, expect neither gratitude nor respect from them.

Leaders all and only, they have reasons for what they do. You don't share their reasons and they do not understand yours, those like you, or those who preceded you. They know what they know, and nothing more. Their ancestors were around since before the beginnings of this country, so don't expect to persuade them.

Rudyard Kipling's poem "Tommy" might give you some insights. If you're still determined to pursue your own sense of manhood, then bless you and thank you.

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!​

 

[XavierBreath]

Well said Robert H. No need for Kipling's poem. Your words were enough.

It speaks volumes for a young man's character when he even considers military service in a time of war. Of course, while the character may remain, the mind and body are often different when he returns home. Sometimes different for the better, sometimes different for the worse.

My own military service was spent forward deployed in the US Navy. The first Gulf War was my little war.......The one you young bucks are going back to take care of now. I won't speak about my political beliefs, but rather just give a couple of my own opinions based on personal experience.

Military service is a good thing. It teaches self sacrifice for the greater good, even when those you are sacrificing for could not care less. It teaches you to hold your head and honor high against extreme adversity, and it quickly makes a man out of a boy. Of course, it is not the only way of becoming a man, but it is one of the surest and quickest.

I never had a friend who became a Marine and remained the same person I previously knew. The change was usually for the better. I have known Marines who fought on Okinawa, Tarawa, Korea, and Vietnam, as well as in the Persian Gulf. I have known Marines who never went to war. They all have my respect.

Having a college degree is not a certain route to becoming an officer (a zero in Navy parlance.) How do I know? I was an enlisted puke who enlisted with a college degree. Yes, I tried to go the officer route, but the timing was wrong. I resolved to enlist and try from within. Boy was I deluded. I was a warm strong able bodied seaman (ABC) and that was going to be my career path if I stayed in. Do not think that just because you possess a degree you will be given a commission. Do not think you will be given an opportunity for college in the Corps. The USMC is not a college program. No branch of the military is a college program. They are all there to protect the United States interests at home and abroad, whether in peace or war. Period. You will be a rifleman. Every Marine is first a rifleman, even the women, and even the guy who manages the pay roster and fixes the trucks. You will not become a Marine and not be a rifleman.

As a rifleman, you will likely be sent to war. You may lose parts of your body, your mind or your life. You may be very dead in less than a year, having given your entire future, all your hopes and dreams and your very body and life for a bunch of ungrateful misfits who do not have enough honor to respect your sacrifice. That is the reality of life in the military, whether it is the Marines, the Navy, the Army, or the Air Farce. You will not be asked, but expected and compelled to uphold and support the rights and freedoms of those who would spit in your face and let your children die. If, after an honest soul searching, you can live with that reality, military life might be the ticket you need.

There are no certainties in the military. You may go in thinking you are headed for Baghdad, and serve your time at Cherry Point. You may be promised a cush slot in Yokoska and two weeks later find yourself in harm's way in some God forsaken armpit of the world. One thing is certain though. When Skippy's grandson asks him what he did to preserve America, Skippy will be ashamed to answer he sold used cars during a time of war. A Marine's grandson already knows what his grandfather did. His grandfather was a Marine. And that is something that will endure long after you are gone.

 

[Powderman]

There's one other thing I forgot to mention...

When my son reached the beginning of his Senior year in high school, he approached me and said, "Dad, I believe that every young man should serve at least three years. I want to do the same thing you did."

Of course, being the motivated and conscientious NCO that I (was...) am, I called the Army Recruiter, and told them that I was a former NCO, had a son in his senior year with good grades, and that he wanted to enlist.

They were knocking on the door in 15 minutes, flat!

My son took the sample ASVAB, and blew it out of the water. He asked what he would be eligible for.

They laid AR 611-201 in front of him, and told him to pick what he wanted.

They promised 50K in college money.
They told him that he would get hefty bonuses.
Guaranteed his first duty station.
If he got a friend to enlist, they would guarantee them a posting together.

And on, and on, and on.....

He listened, and told them, "I'll think about it."

The next day, he showed up with a Marine recruiter. He said, "I've thought about it, and I want to be a Marine."

I said, "OK. Sergeant, may I talk with you for a second?"

I told him about my background and career. I then asked him the following questions...

"So, does my son get his choice of first duty station?"

"No. He goes where the Corps sends him."
(ok, strike one....)

"Well, how about his choice of MOS?"

"No. He'll do the job he is assigned."
(Well, we're 0 for 2 here...not a good beginning...)

"OK. Well, he's going for four years. What kind of bonus money does he get?"

"None."

I excused myself, and pulled my son to the side.

I then asked him...

"OK. Have you lost your mind? What are you getting yourself into?!?"

My son straightened up, and looked me right in the eye...he always has, but this time I saw something different there. What he said next rocked me right back.

"Dad, I think we're going to war soon. (This was in June, 2000!) I don't want the guy next to me thinking about his college money."

In that instant--in that very second, I saw that my son had indeed become a man--and I was overwhelmed by relief that I had, indeed, raised my son the RIGHT way--to love this great Nation as much as I did--and to recognize that we have the solemn task--no, the DUTY--to support and defend the United States, as our fathers did before us.

What could I say?

I signed him in on Delayed Entry.

I made damned sure that I took time off to attend his graduation, at MCRD San Diego. For sure, I did not recognize him at first. But he was there--all honed steel and whipcord.

While he was home, we had some pictures taken together--he put on his blues for us. When he came out and stood in front of me, I had a picture that came to mind...

a soldier standing guard duty, being relieved by a Marine. I recognized the responsibility that he had taken on.

Young man, I hope that you are still reading this thread. By becoming a Marine, you are filling some mighty big shoes--but if you can pass through the fire, you WILL come out honed and ready, pure combat steel to be used in the service of this great Nation.

And I personally believe that there is NO higher calling.

May God bless you, and thank you for being ready to stand in the breach.

 

[Javelin]

Listen to me.

Go to a University that has an ROTC program. Sign up for Military Science and go to the optional PT in the morning. You will have a scholarship by the second year and graduate as an Officer.

PS: WOW THAT WAS A GREAT POST POWDERMAN! ^^

 

[XavierBreath]

I'll add a couple of other items..........

I could enlist in September of 2009 after I graduate school, or I could enlist in 2013 after I graduate from college and enlist at a higher rank.

As a college graduate enlisting, you will graduate boot camp as an E3. True, that's higher than an E1, but you will have made up the difference in under a year if you try.

There is a war on right now. Combat. If you want to rise up quickly in the enlisted ranks, the quickest way to do so is to enlist during a time of war and go into combat. Then survive. In 2013 you could be an E3, or you could be an E6. E1 to E3 happens fast. E3 to E6 takes a while. If advancement is your goal, consider that. Wars don't last forever, and advancement is not guaranteed.

Javelin is correct if you want to go the officer route. Being an officer has it's perks, but what many do not understand is being enlisted has good points as well. Getting a bit more pay and a bunch of salutes is not all there is to being in the military. Decide which route is best for you.

As a Marine, regardless of your duties, you will be held responsible for more than you will likely ever be responsible for as a civilian. I'm not talking equipment or budgets here. The lives of your friends is a huge responsibility. It is one that changes your perspective.

Finally, let me say that when it comes to your service helping you get a job on the outside, let me confirm that it does. Civilians who have never served may not ever take your service into consideration. But, if you come into a job interview with a veteran sitting there looking at your resume' don't think it doesn't make a difference. It does. It makes a huge difference. For example.....In 2007 I hired three nurses to work with me. I interviewed probably twelve or fifteen nurses over the course of the year for those three positions. All three positions went to re-schooled veterans. Why? Because I knew exactly what I would be getting. Call it favoritism if you like, but I would rather have a new nursing school graduate that was prior military than a nurse with ten years of nursing experience. I don't have time to play games with the people who simply do not understand duty and teamwork. I can teach the rest if I have someone willing and ready to learn. Your military service will make a difference in the civilian sector if your boss is prior military. That is all.

 

[Art Eatman]

The military is and has always been an honorable calling. That it has been or can be misused has to do with the politicians and not with those who serve.

Nowhere is it written that one must enter the military without a college education, and you could well be more useful as an officer. What you can learn in ROTC will always be useful to you, even if you later decide against a career.

At this point in your life, education and ROTC simply cannot be a mistake.

Art

 

[XnaV80]

I know how you feel about your country. I served in the Navy as enlisted (99-06) currently in college and it's not for me, sooo i'm going into the army as infantry this May. Sure i could have kept my TS/SCI security clearance and be in the rear, but like you, i felt the call to duty, and I commend you. I can only speak from my own expirence so bear with me. I'm not 18 anymore (27) and i'm apprehensive about jump school. PT isn't going to get easier as you get older. 4 years of college drinking may have an effect on your pt test. Marines are marked by two things, marksmanship and physical fitness. I was stationed on the USS Belleau Wood (LHA-3) so we had 2000 leathernecks w/ us on deployment. Starting out an e-1 in the navy and clawing my way to E-5 wasn't an easy thing to do, espically as a CTO/IT (job). To me, it sounds like you have your mind made up on a career, only if you're 120% about that, then by all means, become an officer, if you want higher pay. Go enlisted if you want less responsibility/reward and more fun/B.S. You never did mention what job you wanted to have in the marines? were you going for grunt? Intel? that also would have an effect on if you'd rather be officer or enlisted...well to me anyway. See ya in the sandbox, but don't look too far to the future you forget about today.

 

[NGIB]

I'm retired from the Air Force, my daughter served with the Army in Afghanistan, and my son is currently serving with the Army in Iraq.

We all made our choices freely and neither of my kids had to serve due to poor economic circumstances - they wanted to grow and mature. I've read this whole thread and a lot of the posts didn't sit well with me but at least here we have the freedom to be different. I served 20 years as an enlisted man and retired a senior NCO. I had a number of chances to go the officer route and I chose not to as it is 1000% more political and didn't fit my nature.

I've never regretted for one minute my years of service and while I worry about my son I know he chose this path. Rather than get off on tangents on the governments correct or incorrect use of the military or politics in general, let's provide this man solid advice and counsel.

If you truly want to serve - do so with pride and honor, leave the politics to politicians...

 

[EricTheBarbarian]

I didnt read all of the responses to your question, but heres a method that worked good for me. Out of highschool I really wanted to join the military immediately but mom was big on me going to college. So I made somewhat of a compromise.
I enlisted in the army national guard out of highschool and attended basic training and AIT. Then when i got back from that, I drilled with my national guard unit one weekend a month while attending college. Yes you will get promotion points for college credit, except you have the military helping pay for your school, and in some cases paying for all of it. It is fairly simple to switch from reserves or national guard to active duty if you decide college isnt for you and you have the desire to do so. If you do decide on ROTC at a University, you wont regret having some experience and knowing a few things either. There is also the option of OCS(officer candidate school) which can be done through the national guard or active duty with no ROTC, just a college degree.
At the end of my sophomore year I learned more about the ROTC program at my university, and thought Id like to be a commissioned officer. But honestly, not everyone wants to be a commissioned officer. Id find out what the army or marines is all about before you really decide if you want to go the officer route or not. Theres really nothing you can read to be able to understand what its like compared to experiencing the military first hand.
I was beginning to really tire of school and really wanted to go active duty, but i stuck it out for the four years. Almost ended my college experience, but keeping my eyes on the goal, a commission in the United States Army.
.
If you decide you dont like it, you can just not go the officer route and stay in reserve status. However, even in the reserves there is a good chance of deployment and you need to be aware of that. Although, it does give a better chance for getting a college degree. I know the marines, air force, navy, and army all have reserve components.
Well to make a long story short, I decided I had had enough of the national guard, and when i graduated college this past summer I got my commission for the active duty army. They are the same commission, but during your junior year you can decide if you want to go for the reserves or for active duty. Same training, just one isnt a full time job constantly. So now I am an LT in the engineer corp about to be stationed in Fort Drum once I graduate from Engineer OBC(officer basic course). Good luck to you in your decision,and if you have any questions feel free to PM me.

 

[NGIB]

about to be stationed in Fort Drum

Bring VERY warm clothes as Watertown is seriously cold. My daughter did her whole hitch there with the 10th Mountain and I ended up visiting her a few time in the winter. Hooah!

 

[bogie]

Xavier's correct - the military is the world's largest fraternity - you'll have a network that won't let you down. But it also expects a LOT out of you.

Have you done any community projects with scouts or church? Do you have any developing leadership skills? Because you're going to have to work on those - and not just butterbar-typical "send 14 privates over to do the yechy job" stuff, but be ready to lead from the front - be prepared to get messy to show the 14 privates HOW the job is done.

 

[taliv]

powderman, that was a heckuva story

 

[hso]

With respect to the OP, this is OT for THR.

You've received some good advice from many different perspectives.

Summed up -

You may decide that you want to enter service as an officer or enlisted, but without attending a college with an NROTC program your options are to enter as enlisted with a college (not a bad thing).

Make sure that you pick a credible major in college if you go.

Good luck.