When to get a lawyer

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Blackbeard

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So you get arrested. They read you your rights, and then you say (repeat after me), "I want my lawyer". Assuming you can afford one, does this necessitate having one on retainer before being arrested? Or can you just have one selected and call him from jail, arranging for payment when he gets there?

My guess is that you need one on retainer. Any ideas how to approach the subject with potential counsel? How big of a retainer is recommended?
 
Good question.

Talk to one in advance. If you carry a gun, you need to do a couple of things. First of all, carry umbrella liability coverage. (Comes with most homeowners' insurance policies.) Then you need to talk to some criminal trial lawyers. I talked to a prominent gun rights attorney in this state, and I asked him if I could call him if I had a big problem, and let my insurance work out the bill, and he said sure. Yes, some more prominent attorneys may require a retainer for most of their clients, but this doesn't mean that they won't represent you without one. Some will be non-committal, saying; "Call me when it happens and we'll find out." but most will just want to explain their fee structure to you, ask and maybe veryfy that you do have coverage.

The insurance may not cover the entire cost of their fee. But it's better than going with the public defender. (Except in districts where the courts use commercial attorneys pro-bono on a rolling basis for public defense of indigents.)
 
Having a lawyer show up at the PD does nothing for you...you're not going to be un-arrested. The concept is that questioning will cease when an arrestee requests a lawyer be present for ANY questioning. This will prevent you from digging yourself a bigger hole. Should you incriminate yourself after the request is made, it is generally stricken.

If you're bonded out, you'll have time to look when you're released. As far as homeowners covering legal fees, I'm speculating that it won't cover a "criminal offense"...just guessing.
 
Homeowners coverage for a criminal charge???

Beatcop is exactly right. The liability coverage included in a homeowners and personal liability policy will not respond to legal fees related to a criminal charge. That said if there is a possibility that there may be some civil liability they may mount a preliminary defense under what is known as a reservation of rights. Admittedly, this is a long shot and I wouldn't count on it.
 
. First of all, carry umbrella liability coverage. (Comes with most homeowners' insurance policies.)

Umbrella coverage doesn't come with homeowners policies.

Homeowners, auto, boat, etc have liability limits associated with them. An umbrella policy is simply a policy that kicks in once those underlying coverages are exhausted.

For example, you have $100,000 personal liability on your auto policy. You could buy a 1 million dollar umbrella policy that covers the next $900,000.

So, if you became liable to someone for $500,000 the auto policy would pay it's 100k, and the umbrella the next 400k.

That's why it's an "umbrella", it goes over what coverage you already have.
 
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If arrested in general clam up and bond out. then retain counsel. as a criminal defense attorney i would not accept a retainer for something that probably will never happen. as for insurance coverage don't count on it. insurance will cover negligent acts but not intentional acts. the insurance company will undoubtly and in most cases successfully weasle out of coverage based on the latter. hope this info is helpful.
 
If you have the time to ask about attorneys here on THR, you have the time to find names from your state firearms organization or from the NRA or other national organization. You then can have the name and phone number(s) with you if you need the info.
 
If you are read your Miranda rights, you can request a lawyer if you cannot afford one, one should be provided. Otherwise, you can call one out of the phone book with your one phone call. I would call a good friend or relative and ask them to call around for me. That way I do not waste my call on a lawyer who does not want to take my case. Generally speaking, do not say anything to the police after you are arrested AND READ YOUR RIGHTS except for your name and address. I have been in positions where the cops have made up and embellished what I have said to them without being read my rights. If you are not read your Miranda rights and are detained/arrested, say nothing. Don't request your rights read to you. You can later use this to possibly have the entire case thrown out of court due to a breach of procedure.
 
Shut up!!
Call home and tell somebody to call you a criminal lawyer.
Never pay a retainer.
You're going to make some interesting new friends.
And the guy in the cell with you will sell you out in 2 seconds.
Shut Up

AFS
 
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spend your night in jail then go home call a lawyer. nothing really changes until the court date the tickets have been written, if the lawyer shows up that night the tickets stay written. hence the phrase "tell it to the judge..."
 
My father used to say--your mouth is your worst enemy!

Just provide name, address and shut the pie hole and after you are read your rights or not just sit and spin till you bond out.
 
Assuming you can afford one, does this necessitate having one on retainer before being arrested? Or can you just have one selected and call him from jail, arranging for payment when he gets there?


That would depend on the lawyer. Unless you have one on retainer I wouldn't expect a good lawyer to come out if you got arrested in the middle of the night. The retainer would also have to be substantial. What beatcop said is true having your lawyer show up after right you're arrested is not going to have you unarrested no matter how much a retainer you have paid him. I've arrested some very rich people who had very good lawyers they paid a lot of money to show up at 2 am and it didn't get them out of jail.

Two words, prepaid legal.
__________________


The best criminal lawyer I know would have nothing to do with a prepaid legal plan. He has more than enough business coming to him on a regular basis. The best doesn't come cheap.

Prepaid legal may be the answer for some people but I guess the quality of lawyer you get would depend a lot on how much you pay for the plan. I would say nothing, call the best criminal lawyer I know and spend the night in jail either waiting for bail to be set or for my initial appearance for my lawyer to show up.
 
Assuming you can afford one, does this necessitate having one on retainer before being arrested? Or can you just have one selected and call him from jail, arranging for payment when he gets there?

Lawyers, especially good criminal lawyers, deal with a lot of BS especially about payment. And they know that if you cannot scrape together their fee when you are facing years in jail, you cannot scrape it together. Therefore, they want to get paid up front and do not want to waste their time if you cannot. To get over this hurdle you need to have relationship with an attorney. If you know a criminal defense attorney from PTA meetings, the range, your church, the neighborhood etc. and he knows you that is probably enough. However, if you don't you may need to meet a speak with one ahead of time to build a relationship. In S. Florida, you may need to put up a few thousand dollars as a refundable retainer to show that you are serious.

As Griz22 says, a lawyer will not get you unarrested. However, a lawyer will keep your mouth shut and keep you from being interrogated. While everyone knows you are not supposed to talk, everyone does. The cop will suggest you are completely in the right and you might be able to leave that night if you can just explain what happened, the urge to get it behind you becomes overwhelming and you talk. Then your attorney has to suppress your confession.

Two words, prepaid legal.

Has anyone on this board used prepaid legal (Non-PBA) after a SD shooting? I just thrashed a prepaid attorney on an eviction yesterday- the tenant would have been better off going pro se. The attorneys are the cheapest garbage they can find. Also, I am sure that there are some pretty onerous exclusions in the contract i.e. no criminal defense.
 
If this is a pressing concern, the American Self-Defense Institute is worth a look. If you are arrested following an SD shooting, they'll provide you with a lawyer who specializes in SD cases for the first 72 hours. Like they say in their literature, with legal fees that generally run over $100/hr, that's a lot of protection.

However, how you handle your questioning by the police will have far reaching effects that can change your life forever. Remember, this is a critical point. What you say will also determine the available options for your defense. On the other hand, if you don't talk, the police may have no choice but to take you into custody.

Personally, unless I was in some kind of super-high-risk profession where it was likely I might need this service, I think this is a safe bet for the "insurer," given that most people's odds of having to engage in an SD shooting are extremely small. However, there are many instructional videos and websites posted by attorneys and they all agree: Don't talk without a lawyer present. If you must say anything, keep it brief. The reason is that the more you say, the harder it will be for an attorney to defend you.
 
Keep in mind that a lot of defendants make their most damaging statements BEFORE they are arrested - to witnesses or LEO's that arrive first and ask seemingly innocuous questions along with the standard "what happened here?" Technically, unless a "reasonable person" would not feel free to leave, or felt "detained" at the time an officer is asking questions, they are not "under arrest" at that time, and there is no requirement for the officer to Mirandize them at that point. That's when the soon-to-be-arrestee usually makes the most damaging statements, so remember that the 5th Amendment right to remain silent applies 24/7, not just after being read Miranda warnings.
 
What does "say nothing" really mean?

After an SD event, the general consensus seem to be to say only:

1. I was in fear for my life.
2. I want him/her/them arrested.
3. I'll cooperate after I talk to a lawyer.

Some add a step, 2.5: There's maybe some evidence or witness over there you might want to check out.

And some say skip straight to number 3 -- say nothing. Certainly saying nothing is better than saying too much, and if you can't stick to the script above (1, 2, 3) then you're probably better off keeping your mouth shut. For example, #1 is "I was in fear for my life", not "This crackhead burst through my door with a gun, so I shot him." Really? how do you know he's a crackhead? hang around with them often? are you one? or maybe you're just a crack dealer? "burst through your door". What if the door jam doesn't look broken -- any chance you left it unlocked or ajar? If so, your statement is at best unreliable and at worst a lie. And so on, with almost any improvisation you can do to the script.

But I'm concerned with what you say or don't say before you get to #1, whatever your #1 is. You shoot the BG and call 911 (or even better, the other way around if possible). You're smart and make your weapon safe, put it down, and keep your hands visible when the cops show up.

Common sense says the first thing the officers are going to care about is securing the scene. They are going to tell you to do some things (which you should do), but they are also going to ask you some things. Which can or should you answer? Maybe the dialog goes like:

"What's your name?" "Do you live here?" "Is anyone else here?" "Do you have any other guns in the house?" "Do you know this person (the BG)?"

The first three seem sensible to answer. The fourth one though ... I understand why the responding officer would want to know, I'm just not sure you should answer. If you have guns locked up in a different room it's hard to see how they have any bearing on securing the scene, but then it doesn't seem likely that that determination is yours to make. The fifth question, "Do you know the BG", seems pretty clear to me that you should wait for your lawyer to answer.

So, "say nothing" probably doesn't mean (to most people) refusing to identify yourself or giving the officers the information they need to be safe. Even for those of a strict "say nothing" policy it probably includes asking for a lawyer, which technically isn't saying nothing.

If you've been there, correct my sample dialog. What are the questions you're likely to ask, be asked, or have a client asked? Which ones should the victim (the SD shooter) answer and which should he or she defer on?
 
I think this is relevant, it a long video on what you should and should not say to the police. From both points of view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. - According to that, anything you say cannot be used to for you.
 
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According to that, anything you say cannot be used to for you.

I don't think so. Just because it can and will be used against you doesn't mean it can't be used for you. I think you took one step too far on that.
 
Two words, prepaid legal.

Three words: waste of money.

Take a few seconds and google "is prepaid legal a scam" and you'll see why it's not such a great idea.

Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. - According to that, anything you say cannot be used to for you.

This makes absolutely zero sense. How can it work against me if I say something wrong, but not for me if I say something right?

The key is to tell only what you need to, and **** after that. It's all the extra info you give after "I ordered badguy to stop, he wouldn't stop, I was in fear of my life and I shot" that causes problems down the line.
 
I am glad this is one thing I don't worry about. I come from a long line of Trouble Makers
and my Attorney is like a keg of Beer.......Always on Tap!

He's good too.
 
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