When you trim . .do you trim to Minimum Length?

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dmftoy1

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Just spent the afternoon trimming 5.56 brass and was wondering what most people do . . .do you trim to the minimum from the reloading manuals in the hope that it'll be longer until you have to trim again or do you trim to some point under max (and if so, how far under max)?

The reason I'm asking is that I was measuring a bunch of once fired brass and it was right at 'max' before trimming . . . . .from my experience it seems that most of the "growth" in length happens when you resize and so I'm wondering if factory brass is typically right at the maximum length before it's fired or ??

Just curious.

Have a good one,
Dave
 
I measure my cases after I resize and trim to min lenght only when there is a case in the lot I`m working with that excedes the max SAAMI lists. In other words if I am loading fifty cases and all are under max but one, all get trimmed. If all are at max I don`t trim, it is the max allowed that is listed in the manuals. The min trim lenght I use is 0.010" under max allowed lenght.
I have seen new unfired factory cases that are right at and at some point below max. I don`t think they care about lenght to much as long as they are within spec for the cartridge.
 
I have had the same thoughts on sizing. I have some lake city military surplus that i just fired and they are 1.60 to 1.65. The books all say 1.75. I guess they are ok to reload with such a difference.
 
SAAMI lists a trim length for the shortest chamber that might be encountered out in the world, not your chamber. Sinclair Intl. and probably a few others out there sell a gage to measure your chamber.
When you trim to book spec you are very likely overtrimming, which increases the gap between the end of the brass and where the throat actually starts. This gap can have a significant effect on accuracy.
I use a chamber gage and have found a .04 difference from book trim length in a 5.56 chamber. Most brass, even new tends to be very close to book trim to length.
 
I used to trim to min length for .223, now I set the Wilson trimmer to .003 under max.

Military brass (1x fired) that I buy seems to have stretched like the dickens on that first firing, but after that (even in a 5.56 chamber) doesn't seem to stretch much. Since everything in ".223" around me is a 5.56 chamber, it's still a generous safety margin.

BTW, I love the Wilson trimmer: simple, quick, accurate, and clean results.

I've stopped even measuring .45ACP brass... waste of time.
 
Thanks guys. My last round of trimming I went to the minimum for my 5.56 and didn't like how short the brass appears when I had the COL set where I wanted it. (nowhere near the crimping cannelure). This time around I'm trimming to 1.757 instead of 1.751 and hoping for a little bit better results. (I had some 5 shot groups around 7/8th of an inch for the last batch with Sierra 69 gr HPBT's).

Anyway, I was just curious. I might have to look into that tool from Sinclair as I'm shooting Wylde chambers and I have no clue how that measures up . from what I understand the throat is shorter than 5.56 but longer than .223. (if I have my terminology right. :) )

Have a good one,
Dave
 
If you are loading for economy, you'll want to trim to the maximum length your chamber allows. This will require a chamber cast. If that's not possible, then just trim to maximum SAAMI length for that particular cartridge.

I tend to trim to .001-.002" above minimum SAAMI length.

The key is to trim all your brass in a particular lot to the same length. Consistency is the key to accuracy.
 
The cases stretch stretch during sizeing much more then when fired. If you measure a new case, load and fire it, then remeasure, it will likely be notably shorter. This is very apparent with straight walled pistol cases such as the 45 acp. The brass forms to the chamber diamentions when fired and as the walls expand outward the brass not only thins but draws from its lenght. The brass then "springs" back to allow the case to be extracted from the chamber, but it doesn`t return fully to its original geometery. The sizeing die then compresses the case walls back down dureing sizeing and the displaced brass needs a place to go, the case "grows" as the brass flows foreward. Brass does not thicken back up, it stays at the thinner size it was stretched to when fired. Think of a balloon, squeeze a blown up one and the balloon will grow longer but the walls remain the same. The "sloppier" your chamber the more the case will expand outward and show "growth" when resized. The semi autos with their larger chambers will allow more brass flow then a tight chambered bolt or single shot with a snug chamber. Cartridge doesn`t matter much in this process, the case to chamber fit is the major component. Although I have heard the more taper there is to a case the more stretch they will exibit. I can`t vouch for that though.

Neck sizeing or partial sizeing reduces the amount of brass displaced and allows for more fireings then one will get from full sized brass. Neck sized cases will go 10-12 cycles in some of my rifles without trimming and end up being tossed just because I feel they are nearing the end of their life without anealling, which I don`t play with. The cases used in this manor will show neck cracks from work hardened brass before the case body shows any sign of seperation.
The lenght of the case neck IMO doesn`t mean much as long as it holds the bullet firmly. A few thousanths under trim to lenght won`t hurt and Ken Waters once wrote of trimming .005" shorter then the books figure simply to reduce his time spent trimming cases for a rifle that known to cause excessive stretching.

The purpose of trimming is to keep the end of the neck from entering the throat of the barrel and being "pinched" causeing the case to grip the bullet too tightly. This will raise pressures in a otherwise safe load. The fact the bullet "jumps" this little bit of neck area is mostly negated IMO by the fact the bullet ogive is already past this point and already in the leade near the lands of the barrel. There is not much the oversize area of the chamber neck can do to cause the bullet to veer from its path straight in the bore. A bench shooter will of course with not want this condition, but he already has a chamber that is as close to perfect a fit to his cartridge as possible. The person with a rifle that shoots 0.5" or larger groups likely will never notice any differance in accuracy from a case that fills the necks lenght totally vs one that is 0.010" short.

In the end the only way to reduce trimming is to reduce the amount of brass you are displacing. this can be done with "tight" chamber fit or by causing the cases to fit the chambers tighter useing a neck sizer in place of full sizeing. Heavy loads will also cause the cases o form tighter to the chamber wall and not spring back as much as lower charges to so degree. This can cause the shoulder of the case to cause tight chambering and require you to "bump" them back occasionally. This is usually done with a full lenght sizer although there are "body" dies that do this without touching the case walls. Cases will normally grow some when this is done.

How often or how much brass we remove at a time doesn`t affect case life. You can remove it 0.001" at a time or 0.010", in the end you will take the same amount off by the time the case needs to be replaced. I prefer to take large amounts at a time and only trim 4-5 Xs dureing the cases life. if one wants to trim daily he can, but I see no use in it in most cases.
 
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