Where can I find load tables for NATO 7.62x51 (NOT 308 Win)

[DarwinsOrchid]

Friends

I've looked through several load books and downloaded many more. I cannot find load tables for one of the most common cartridges in the shooting world. Mind you, 7.62x51 is not 308 Win. Also, since 7.62x51 has a case wall that is a bit thicker than that of 308 Win, it has a lower volume, thus less powder OR higher pressures. Somewhere I read "use 2 grains less" but that doesn't satisfy me. Do you all have load tables you care to share? More importantly, why would such data not be commonly listed? After all, there are many military cartridges out there like the 223, 30-06, etc. that do have commonly available data.

Thanks amigos,

Migs

 

[IALoder]

Here's some from nosler, they have them on their site.

 

[Charlie98]

Available on Hodgdon's site...

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=54

...and in print in the Hornady load book.

It is not necessarily 7.62mmx51 data, it's just generally called .308 Service Rifle data. I don't believe there is a SAAMI spec for 7.62mm, per se, I think 7.62mm is a specification of NATO. There may be more to it than that, but that's how it shakes out, if memory serves.

 

[MonkTx]

You're spouting info like it's an absolute. Are you also going to seal the bullets in and crimp the primers, pressure & accuracy test lots so as to load 7.62x51 ammo? Hope you're not using fired brass because I don't know of any 7.62x51 that uses spent brass. You as a civillian/non ammunition factory are loading 308 ammo to whatever spec you settle on that may or may not duplicate some factory's version of 7.62x51.

I'm not trying to be snarky but you're asking for 7.62x51 data when you can't truly duplicate it. Load 308 with whatever FMJ bullet you like to a velocity that matches current M80(or whoever's 7.62 ammo you're wanting to copy).

 

[Blackrock]

There's info for the .308 service rifle in the Hornady 9th edition manual. And like the 5.56/.223 the .308 and 7.62x51 dies are the same. So dimensionaly they are the same on the outside. What type of Service rifle will you be loading for? My friend has a M14 clone that he loads for and I gave him all of my 7.62x51 brass that I had.

 

[bullseye308]

An oldie, but a goodie.
https://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellq.htm#duplicate

Lots of good info on this site.

 

[DarwinsOrchid]

Here's some from nosler, they have them on their site.

View attachment 1009534
View attachment 1009533

thank you!

 

[DarwinsOrchid]

Available on Hodgdon's site...

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=54

...and in print in the Hornady load book.

It is not necessarily 7.62mmx51 data, it's just generally called .308 Service Rifle data. I don't believe there is a SAAMI spec for 7.62mm, per se, I think 7.62mm is a specification of NATO. There may be more to it than that, but that's how it shakes out, if memory serves.

Thank you!

 

[DarwinsOrchid]

You're spouting info like it's an absolute. Are you also going to seal the bullets in and crimp the primers, pressure & accuracy test lots so as to load 7.62x51 ammo? Hope you're not using fired brass because I don't know of any 7.62x51 that uses spent brass. You as a civillian/non ammunition factory are loading 308 ammo to whatever spec you settle on that may or may not duplicate some factory's version of 7.62x51.

I'm not trying to be snarky but you're asking for 7.62x51 data when you can't truly duplicate it. Load 308 with whatever FMJ bullet you like to a velocity that matches current M80(or whoever's 7.62 ammo you're wanting to copy).

Quite a bit there. I have lots of once fired and high-quality Fiocci and CBC 7.62x51 brass, so It makes sense to look for loadings. I don't seal primers. Don't see why you would unless it were for other than sporting purposes. Maybe my verbium sounds absolute, but I have done my search. I'm not looking to "duplicate" anything, far from it. I'm looking for recipes with modern components that will work in those cases. No politics involved. Thank you for your thoughts though!

 

[dcloco]

Quite a bit there. I have lots of once fired and high-quality Fiocci and CBC 7.62x51 brass, so It makes sense to look for loadings. I don't seal primers. Don't see why you would unless it were for other than sporting purposes. Maybe my verbium sounds absolute, but I have done my search. I'm not looking to "duplicate" anything, far from it. I'm looking for recipes with modern components that will work in those cases. No politics involved. Thank you for your thoughts though!

When you change ANY component in the reloading recipe, then you start over. Imagine internal case volume of Fiocci and CBC brass is different (don't just weigh the cases and call it good).


99.999999% of civilians do not have access to a pressure testing system, so, you may not use that data point.

Speed and accuracy is all that you are left with.

 

[Charlie98]

Neither Fiocchi or CBC are M80 (7.62mm) brass. That doesn't mean it's bad, I have some CBC, it's decent enough once you get the primer crimp out. Further, I don't know that either one of those headstamps are going to be similar to military brass, weight-wise. It's actually a good question... I might just have to run upstairs and see for meself.

I guess it really depends on what you are asking out of these loads, and what you are shooting them in. 7.62mm (or M80, et al) is nothing magical; in fact, ballistically speaking, it's a crap load. I consider it a 2 MOA load, and the actual military specifications are very close to that, if memory serves.

If you want to duplicate M80 as much as possible, find some generic 145-150grn FMJ BT bullets, some #34 arsenal primers, and a stash of BL-C(2) or W748, and work up a load.

If you want to find something that works better in your rifle than generic M80 or M80-clone ammos, then buy some good bullets, a few different powders... like IMR4895, IMR4064, or similar, depending on what you are shooting them in and what bullet weight you are launching, and see what your rifle is capable of.

FWIW, I have an M1a. I've worked up my version of an M80 clone load for it... mine is a little different because it has a 16" barrel, so I use IMR3031. It's a good, reasonably accurate blasting load. It does not duplicate factory M80, simply because I would have to push the limits of the load data, and I see no reason to do so considering it's purpose. It also is nowhere near as accurate as loads I've worked up with accuracy in mind, using better components.

EDIT: So, I was wrong... my CBC brass has the NATO compass, and the 50rd box it came in was marked M80. I don't remember that, but there it is. CBC is Brazil, but they are not a member of NATO... so I'm not sure how they are getting away with that, although I know they have plants in Europe.

Further... I weighed a case... I have exactly 1 unloaded CBC case! It weighs 182grn, the same as my PS surplus, and my LC18 cases. This is by weight only, not measured volume... that's on you.

 

[DarwinsOrchid]

Here's some from nosler, they have them on their site.

View attachment 1009534
View attachment 1009533

Thank you very much!

 

[1911JAS]

A good read is the Technical Manual
TM-43-0001-27
Remember to use it with caution.
It has the M80 ball info.

 

[Nature Boy]

Maybe my verbium sounds absolute, but I have done my search.

In that search, have you come across 7.62x51 dies?

Out of curiosity, what rifle are you loading for?

….and I would be remiss if I didn’t wish everyone a happy 7.6 day!

 

[DarwinsOrchid]

In that search, have you come across 7.62x51 dies?

Out of curiosity, what rifle are you loading for?

….and I would be remiss if I didn’t wish everyone a happy 7.6 day!

I'm reloading for two 308 Win rifles. I have less than 200 308 Win fired brass but 500+ 7.62x51 once fired brass. Thus the question. But it really goes further than that. Simply why is the information not so commonplace in Sierra, Hornady, Speer, Lee etc. load manuals?

 

[Charlie98]

I have less than 200 308 Win fired brass but 500+ 7.62x51 once fired brass. Thus the question. But it really goes further than that. Simply why is the information not so commonplace in Sierra, Hornady, Speer, Lee etc. load manuals?

A rose by any other name...

Here's the deal that you seem to be missing... there is no difference between .308 and 7.62mm brass and data, beyond 7.62mm brass weight and capacity. There is no magic '7.62' data beyond regular .308 data, adjusted for heavier brass. Service Rifle data is usually geared for accuracy rounds in gas guns... that's all... it's still .308 data adjusted for it's purpose.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I'm reloading for two 308 Win rifles. I have less than 200 308 Win fired brass but 500+ 7.62x51 once fired brass. Thus the question. But it really goes further than that. Simply why is the information not so commonplace in Sierra, Hornady, Speer, Lee etc. load manuals?

It is available in Hornady. It's listed as service rifle data. There are also notes in most prefaces to the 308 data about using 7.62x51 brass.
If you're loading for a semi auto. There is advice on what powders to use.
Study it. Start low. Go slow. Let the gun tell you if it's unhappy by the way it cycles.

 

[Nature Boy]

I'm reloading for two 308 Win rifles. I have less than 200 308 Win fired brass but 500+ 7.62x51 once fired brass. Thus the question. But it really goes further than that. Simply why is the information not so commonplace in Sierra, Hornady, Speer, Lee etc. load manuals?

Actually, as stated above, the Hornady, Sierra and Nosler manuals have a section for service rifle. These are gas operated semi-auto rifles with their own loading restrictions, thus my reason for asking what rifle you’re loading for.

I believe you’re way over thinking this, but that’s OK. It’s part of the hobby.

 

[Howa 9700]

To the OP, I am also in the process of loading 7.62 pull down brass for a 308 win bolt gun. In my case, complicated by the fact that it's new, unfired Lake City (LC) brass that still has the original live Lake City primers, which are to be considered as magnum primers. Pull down brass comes from military retiring the live but aged, abused, and thus maybe unreliable military ammo that has never been fired. They pull the bullet, dump the powder then dispose of it all to folks like us.

As noted, live 7.62 ammo has a different purpose than most of us consider. It is sealed on both ends (primer and bullet) so it can be immersed under water. Is almost always shot through gas operated guns (full auto capable), so has to be able to withstand the rigors of that kind of jolting.....so also has things like crimped in primers (sealed and won't back out if abused), crimped in bullets that won't move in the magazine during heavy fire, recoil, slamming into the breech, etc. And to correctly cycle in the gas gun, the pressures are carefully controlled as that affects the timing of the cycling action. Load tables, when you can find them, suggest load pressures of ammo loaded for military use may be as much as 75% of factory loads sold to consumers for the identical 308 Win civilian guns.

But if you want to duplicate those loads, data is out there. In addition to references already listed, in Hodgdon's annual reloading reference, which is published in magazine format, immediately behind the 308 Win data section, which may have as many as 20 powder different loads for 20 different bullet options, you will find a section for loading for service rifles, which lists about 4 different bullet options with 5 or 6 powder each.

Also important to note, the military also makes ammo for long range shooting....both snipers and what they consider match grade ammo for competition. They use the same brass and primers, but may then switch to heavier bullets, like a 175 gr. Sierra Match King. Bullets and primers are not crimped. What you could load would be a duplicate of these......except you could vary up the bullets to suit.

But as for me, I have no interest in loading my LC brass for anything but typical 308 Win loads.