ole farmerbuck
Member
The last 4 or 5 deer I've shot have been shot in the neck right in front of the shoulder. Never moved (except down)and no mess/blood. 6mm rem with a 75 grain BTHP.
Where do you aim?
- Thread starter dgray64
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Robert Wilson
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"How's that? Between the spinal cord, esophagus, carotid arteries and juglar vein I'd say it's pretty darn vital. Busting a vertebral process with a rifle bullet is usually going to break the neck of a deer. There should be enough shock to severe the spinal cord from a bullet zipping thru at that proximity. Has the situation you just described ever happened to you? That would indeed be a "neat trick." You tweak a deer's neck that bad to knock him down and I bet he isn't running real well when he gets up. Anyway shoot him again if he gets up. I stand by my statement, a deer's neck ain't all that big, any solid hit and he's down for the count."
If you'll follow this link and scroll down a bit you'll see what I mean. There's quite a bit of neck that isn't vital, or at least isn't likely to put the animal down soon enough for you to find it. A shot through the esophagus, for instance, that doesn't also strike a major vessel is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about: it's fatal, but not until tomorrow - if not next week.
And no, I have never hit a deer on a vertebral process, but I have seen a deer shot in the neck go down as if hit by a bomb, only to get back up about 20 seconds later and run off. "Shoot it again" is a great plan, but everybody was busy celebrating a "dead" deer and nobody was in any position to get off a shot before the buck disappeared. I have had several people tell me of similar instances and have read of several more in the hunting/shooting press. I think it may happen often enough to be worth worrying about.
"Bad shots on any part of the animal lead to wounded game, not even closely specific to neck shots. I'd say it's way more likely to happen with behind the shoulder shots, a lot of those are either too high and you just clip the lungs, or they're in the guts. Good luck recovering from that. BUT, if you graze the neck with a bad shot and just get meat, the buck may recover since the wound is far less invasive. Think about it; you have a spinal column innervated with vital arteries and veins surounded only by meat and hide. Any solid shot is dead as nails deer."
Yes, a bad shot is a bad shot, but in my opinion it's a lot easier to make a bad shot on the neck than the shoulder. There just isn't as much to aim at with a neck shot.
Regarding prions, I am afraid you are mistaken. There have been documented cases of human infection with prions through very minor contact. Thankfully, there are no documented cases of CWD transmitted to humans through contact or ingestion of infected game animals, but standard precautions include avoiding contact with brain and spinal cord while field dressing - which is kind of hard to do when you intentionally blew a bunch of spinal cord into the meat.
FWIW, I'm not really advocating that folks avoid the neck shot. If it works for you, more power to you! I'm just elaborating on the reasons why I avoid it.
If you'll follow this link and scroll down a bit you'll see what I mean. There's quite a bit of neck that isn't vital, or at least isn't likely to put the animal down soon enough for you to find it. A shot through the esophagus, for instance, that doesn't also strike a major vessel is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about: it's fatal, but not until tomorrow - if not next week.
And no, I have never hit a deer on a vertebral process, but I have seen a deer shot in the neck go down as if hit by a bomb, only to get back up about 20 seconds later and run off. "Shoot it again" is a great plan, but everybody was busy celebrating a "dead" deer and nobody was in any position to get off a shot before the buck disappeared. I have had several people tell me of similar instances and have read of several more in the hunting/shooting press. I think it may happen often enough to be worth worrying about.
"Bad shots on any part of the animal lead to wounded game, not even closely specific to neck shots. I'd say it's way more likely to happen with behind the shoulder shots, a lot of those are either too high and you just clip the lungs, or they're in the guts. Good luck recovering from that. BUT, if you graze the neck with a bad shot and just get meat, the buck may recover since the wound is far less invasive. Think about it; you have a spinal column innervated with vital arteries and veins surounded only by meat and hide. Any solid shot is dead as nails deer."
Yes, a bad shot is a bad shot, but in my opinion it's a lot easier to make a bad shot on the neck than the shoulder. There just isn't as much to aim at with a neck shot.
Regarding prions, I am afraid you are mistaken. There have been documented cases of human infection with prions through very minor contact. Thankfully, there are no documented cases of CWD transmitted to humans through contact or ingestion of infected game animals, but standard precautions include avoiding contact with brain and spinal cord while field dressing - which is kind of hard to do when you intentionally blew a bunch of spinal cord into the meat.
FWIW, I'm not really advocating that folks avoid the neck shot. If it works for you, more power to you! I'm just elaborating on the reasons why I avoid it.
MCgunner
Member
As one who gut shot his first hog and had to blood trail the thing and take it out while charging me (used a revolver to keep from getting ate), another reason I'm back so shoulder shooting deer is so I don't do this again on a hog by habit.
I had been lung shooting deer with a 7 mag a lot in order to not destroy so much meat when I shot that hog. Frankly, shoulder meat is chili meat, anyway. Screw the meat, kill the animal. 
wankerjake
Member
Here's where we agree, the neck certainly is a smaller target. Look at the link you posted though, notice in the second picture there is major vasculature right along the esophagus. A whole in the esophagus itself isn't immediately life threatening, but you're gonna hit that artery/vein too which is. I've seen it happen. Also that link makes the neck look huge, on a deer that layer of muscle isn't as thick as it looks in the picture. It's exaggerated, the neck is compact and all the vital stuff is packed in together. It looks in the picture like there is a lot of space there to miss, but really there isn't. You get the hide off and the neck is a skinny little thing full of vital stuff. And if you do manage to miss all the good stuff, the animal is pretty likely to survive because all you've hit is hide and a little meat. The odds of busting off a vertebral process without breaking the neck have to be terrible, they are small and a bullets smashing thru there is gonna do bad damage 99% of the time.
Regarding prions again, I'm not familiar with contacted cases with little exposure. From what I've been taught and read it takes time due to the nature of the disease. Everybody has a certain number of prions, it takes a long time for them to convert normal proteins to malignant ones and collect in the nervous system in quantities high enough to cause harm. It is a very rare disease in humans, and 99% of the time the exposure is substantial. Hey, I don't eat nervous tissue either because there is a small risk, but some cannot be avoided. Nervous tissue is in sausages and processed meat foods from the store. Also cutting steaks along the spine is gonna smear spinal tissue on the meat, but it washes off like the rest and it's fine. If CWD is not prevalent in the area there's not much to worry about anyway, it's a rare condition in animals for the most part. CWD is the only prevalent(relatively) prion disease I'm aware of. "Mad Cow" or bovine encephalopathy was not a natural thing, it was the result of grinding up spinal tissue and re-feeding it over and over again to cattle as a protein source. That's why it accumulated in quantities large enough to be harmful. In normal circumstances it isn't a threat, a healthy deer has a minimal amount of prions and you're not in danger if you ate the whole thing. A bullet doesn't blow nervous tissue into the meat, it blows most of it out. So at best you have a few chunks left on the meat...say 80% of it blows out the exit hole, you're left with 20% of a 4 inch section left on the meat...minimal. Not even worth thinking about it in my opinion.
We at least can agree that shoulder shots are good!
srkavanagh6621
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Not to argue you guys can shoot them wherever you want and for the most part they shouldnt be doing very good with a hit anywhere. Personally I aim for the heart lung area because it seems like the thing to do for me. A reason I dont aim for the neck is because about 5 years ago me and my brother were muzzle loader/black powder hunting. My brother was using is encore .50 cal when he shot a doe that was running and hit her in the neck. She initially dropped but got right back up and kept running. We tracked her with very minimal blood but noticed the grove she went into. You could barely tell she was hurt. We walked the grove and sure enough she ran out were we shot her again. This time she dropped being hit in the hind quarter and angled to chest cavity. after looking over the body the first bullet went right through her neck about 5 inches below her head where it went right inbetween the spine and the jug. the hole was the size of a quarter on both sides. So i would say you hit one in the lungs/heart they will at least die within 100 yrds. Aim for the neck and hopefully you dont do that but I wont risk it on a big buck.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
What I've found with my neck shots is that it depends on the bullet. With the Sierra 85-grain HPBT in my .243, a neck shot is destructive in fairly large volume. Aorta, spine, it's all ruined. Pretty much similarly with a 150-grain Sierra bullet from my '06. The boat-tails definitely come all apart in a neck shot on a mulie; they're not quite as tough a bullet as the flat-base.
A fair number of those kills were from in front, through the white spot. That ruins everything. But, as I've said quite often before, that's for bucks who pose nicely for me. Not my fault if he's both proud and stupid. Moving deer? No, then I go for the heart/lung shot.
A fair number of those kills were from in front, through the white spot. That ruins everything. But, as I've said quite often before, that's for bucks who pose nicely for me. Not my fault if he's both proud and stupid. Moving deer? No, then I go for the heart/lung shot.
interlock
Member
when the white tail and roe deer family was put on this earth they were equipped with a gorget patch specially for us to aim at
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
interlock, that's what my daddy told me, oh so long ago. He added, "When you shoot 'em in the white spot, they don't go anywhere." I took it to heart, since I'm lazy and don't really like to have to do more hunting for Bambi after I shoot him. I was an obedient kid. The Hollyweird folks even named a TV show after me: "Father Knows Best".
The other part of the deal is to not shoot right away. Bucky might get closer to a jeep trail.
The other part of the deal is to not shoot right away. Bucky might get closer to a jeep trail.
Gondo
Member
head shots
It all depends on the caliber and distance and type of weapon. Am I using a rifle, shotgun, handgun or bow.
In my life, 60 years, I have killed several deer with head shots. I got my first rifle, a .22lr Sears and Roebuck Ranger bolt action 6 shot clip, for Christmas in 1959. I killed a big buck the following March because my family needed the meat. I put the round, a .22 long between the eye and ear. He dropped where he was standing.
I shot one with a CCI mini-mag lr HP, aiming for the same place but he turned his head away from me as I pulled the trigger. The bullet went in behind his ear and exited between his eyes. This was at about 35 yards.
I hunt now with a revolver in .357 magnum because it is so easy to get really close to the deer here. With the revolver I try for a heart-lung shot because it is a little bit bigger target and lets in a lot of air and lets out a lot of blood.
Peace,
gordon
It all depends on the caliber and distance and type of weapon. Am I using a rifle, shotgun, handgun or bow.
In my life, 60 years, I have killed several deer with head shots. I got my first rifle, a .22lr Sears and Roebuck Ranger bolt action 6 shot clip, for Christmas in 1959. I killed a big buck the following March because my family needed the meat. I put the round, a .22 long between the eye and ear. He dropped where he was standing.
I shot one with a CCI mini-mag lr HP, aiming for the same place but he turned his head away from me as I pulled the trigger. The bullet went in behind his ear and exited between his eyes. This was at about 35 yards.
I hunt now with a revolver in .357 magnum because it is so easy to get really close to the deer here. With the revolver I try for a heart-lung shot because it is a little bit bigger target and lets in a lot of air and lets out a lot of blood.
Peace,
gordon
EmbarkChief
Member
If the opportunity presents itself (good rest, >150yds) I'll shoot them in the head. If that shot is too difficult or stretching my abilities I'll take the neck shot. By far my favorite is the old whistle and squeeze manuver. A little whistle to get their attention (head up ears out) and a .280 140gr ballistic tip is on its way right between the eyes. You know you did it right when their whole body locks up like a vault and vibrates for 10 seconds or so.
I tried the heart shot once, I was about 12 years old and it was my second deer. Buck fever got the best of me and I shot low. Destroyed both the front legs and that dear took off like greased lightning on its hind legs. That deer was seriously motivated as it covered at least 100 yards in that condition before we could catch up and put her down.
I tried the heart shot once, I was about 12 years old and it was my second deer. Buck fever got the best of me and I shot low. Destroyed both the front legs and that dear took off like greased lightning on its hind legs. That deer was seriously motivated as it covered at least 100 yards in that condition before we could catch up and put her down.
What spot are you and Art describing? I obviously haven't seen enough deer, because I can't visualize the white spot you describe.
beefstew
Member
Regarding CWD, you might want to read this article from the CDC...
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol10no6/03-1082.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol10no6/03-1082.htm
KodiakBeer
member
Most people don't know where the heart/lung shot is on a deer, and that's why they run off 100 yards before bleeding out. The heart (and bottom of the lungs) is actually at the very bottom of the chest. Most people aim too high.
IndispensableDestiny
Member
Same here. It also forces you to limit yourself to quartering or broadside shots, which I think is a good idea.
1911 guy
Member
I'm going to stick with deer here, just like about everyone else.
Broadside, I shoot just behind the elbow joint of the near front leg.
Quartering away, I aim through the deer to the far front shoulder
Quartering to, I aim just inboard of the near front leg.
Head on, I shoot dead center, low in the chest.
Heading away, back of the head. I like to yell or whistle, often gets them to turn.
Broadside, I shoot just behind the elbow joint of the near front leg.
Quartering away, I aim through the deer to the far front shoulder
Quartering to, I aim just inboard of the near front leg.
Head on, I shoot dead center, low in the chest.
Heading away, back of the head. I like to yell or whistle, often gets them to turn.
Ditto here. When talking about whitetails, broadside I instinctively shoot low for the heart. Others prefer to break both shoulders so they can't run. Either is effective.
I mainly handgun hunt with my Model 29 S&W .44 Magnum topped with a Holosight. I've taken a lot of deer with this rig through the years and it has been extremely productive for me with this set up.
Sadly, heartshots with a 300 gr. hardcast, flat-nose bullet will instantly stop the heart from pumping though, and the through and through hardcast bullet hole will be clean but generally plugged. With no blood pressure, there's sometimes zero blood trail . . . but they are instantly dead when you hit 'em and they generally don't run far.
I DID have to track this one last year 185 yards, but I knew he was dead when I hit him. There was zero blood trail though.
Ditto this year on a big bodied buck with a mediocre 6-point rack. He went about 80 yards and I heard him fall . . . and he ran towards the jeep trail AND at my waiting 3-wheeler!!!
This piebald whitetail buck went only 35 yards with a heart shot a few years ago . . . the bullet exited out the far (leftside) shoulder/leg area. I'd recently hurt my back and no one was in camp that day so I had to drag him back to camp about 1/2 mile away . . .
Some say the meat tastes better if the adrenaline doesn't jump after one hits the deer before it dies. Heart shots are a good, humane way to accomplish this goal!
Now I will confess that one Thanksgiving morning, on a lean year (and needing meat), I dropped a small doe with a through and through head shot just under the ears broadside. Lights out instantly this way . . . and it saved ALL the meat. Distance was only 23 yards.
Generally though, heart/lung/shoulder or just behind the shoulder shots are best if the animal is broadside, IMHO.
I mainly handgun hunt with my Model 29 S&W .44 Magnum topped with a Holosight. I've taken a lot of deer with this rig through the years and it has been extremely productive for me with this set up.
Sadly, heartshots with a 300 gr. hardcast, flat-nose bullet will instantly stop the heart from pumping though, and the through and through hardcast bullet hole will be clean but generally plugged. With no blood pressure, there's sometimes zero blood trail . . . but they are instantly dead when you hit 'em and they generally don't run far.
I DID have to track this one last year 185 yards, but I knew he was dead when I hit him. There was zero blood trail though.
Ditto this year on a big bodied buck with a mediocre 6-point rack. He went about 80 yards and I heard him fall . . . and he ran towards the jeep trail AND at my waiting 3-wheeler!!!
This piebald whitetail buck went only 35 yards with a heart shot a few years ago . . . the bullet exited out the far (leftside) shoulder/leg area. I'd recently hurt my back and no one was in camp that day so I had to drag him back to camp about 1/2 mile away . . .
Some say the meat tastes better if the adrenaline doesn't jump after one hits the deer before it dies. Heart shots are a good, humane way to accomplish this goal!
Now I will confess that one Thanksgiving morning, on a lean year (and needing meat), I dropped a small doe with a through and through head shot just under the ears broadside. Lights out instantly this way . . . and it saved ALL the meat. Distance was only 23 yards.
Generally though, heart/lung/shoulder or just behind the shoulder shots are best if the animal is broadside, IMHO.
Uncle Mike
Member
Art, you missed a good opportunity to hone your 'rodeo' skills!
Aint that the truth! Pay attention fellas', this man has 'been there, done that'!
I generally line up the vertical stadia line along the back side of the front leg, line up the horizontal stadia between the top of the back and the bottom of the belly...and let er' rip! Never a problem!
I never take neck shots. Why risk wounding the animal? Put it in the boiler room and the animal will go down either right there or a ways away. With a neck shot you could miss, you could hit low and injure the animal where it bleeds to death, or you could kill it. With a 1 inch behind the shoulder shot, your good to go. If one was to do a neck shot, it better be a pretty close deer and the rifle better be spot on.
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