Deer Anatomy - Vocabulary

[Doc7]

i am on my phone all week on vacation so will have to not post a photo on this thread.

There's a ton of differing vocabulary in hunting which leads to quite the confusion. Case in point, where I work, I can argue till I am red in the face and still nobody will agree with me that walking slowly through the woods, pausing to look and listen for wild game, is called "Still Hunting." To a man, despite Field&Stream and the collective population of the internet on my side, "Still Hunting" to my coworkers means sitting in a tree stand or ground blind.

The particular piece of deer anatomy I find to be very confusing to people is the reference to the "Shoulder".

Some people like to shoot deer "in the shoulder" for a DRT bang-flop. Others shoot "right behind the shoulder" for heart and lungs. I think the people who are saying "right behind the shoulder" are referring to the deers armpit, because otherwise right behind the shoulder would be well above the traditional target heart and lung area.

Others take to calling the shoulder shot the "high shoulder shot", which certainly removes ambiguity for their aiming point and if they were telling a novice where to shoot while staring at a buck from the tree stand. But I haven't heard anyone refer to heart lung as being "a few inches behind the low shoulder".

What is correct way to refer to the heart lung spot?

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

I've heard it referred to as the "crease" of the shoulder by bow hunters. When shooting down from a tree stand aiming higher up the shoulder should, depending upon the angle that the deer is standing to you, have a better chance of hitting vitals.

 

[horsey300]

i am on my phone all week on vacation so will have to not post a photo on this thread.

There's a ton of differing vocabulary in hunting which leads to quite the confusion. Case in point, where I work, I can argue till I am red in the face and still nobody will agree with me that walking slowly through the woods, pausing to look and listen for wild game, is called "Still Hunting." To a man, despite Field&Stream and the collective population of the internet on my side, "Still Hunting" to my coworkers means sitting in a tree stand or ground blind.

The particular piece of deer anatomy I find to be very confusing to people is the reference to the "Shoulder".

Some people like to shoot deer "in the shoulder" for a DRT bang-flop. Others shoot "right behind the shoulder" for heart and lungs. I think the people who are saying "right behind the shoulder" are referring to the deers armpit, because otherwise right behind the shoulder would be well above the traditional target heart and lung area.

Others take to calling the shoulder shot the "high shoulder shot", which certainly removes ambiguity for their aiming point and if they were telling a novice where to shoot while staring at a buck from the tree stand. But I haven't heard anyone refer to heart lung as being "a few inches behind the low shoulder".

What is correct way to refer to the heart lung spot?

Case number one to me and mine is and will always be in the stalking category, if we still hunt, we are sitting STILL, obviously one word can have many interpretations and this is just ours. Number 2, armpit or RIGHT behind the shoulder or heart shot depending on who I'm talking to.

 

[MidRoad]

I'm with you on the terminology of "still hunting", walk slow quiet,pay attention, listen ,look, walk a little more. Usually refer to stalking if I was on the trail of something or heading towards a call I heard. But I do call a heart/lung shot a behind the shoulder, just what my old man has always called it so I picked it up. As for ground blinds or tree stand I always say "hunting from a _______ ", or sitting in a stand, or blind, or sittin in a tree. I wouldn't call it still hunting, more sitting .

 

[Kingcreek]

When a deer moves its front leg/shoulder you can see the back edge and the fold of the tissue by the "elbow" joint. I aim right behind this and 1/3rd up from the bottom for a heart/lung shot on a broadside deer. I don't intentionally shoot through the shoulder if avoidable.
I with you on "still hunting". Stalking is when I know by sign or sound that I'm slowly following deer.

 

[Captcurt]

When a deer moves its front leg/shoulder you can see the back edge and the fold of the tissue by the "elbow" joint. I aim right behind this and 1/3rd up from the bottom for a heart/lung shot on a broadside deer. I don't intentionally shoot through the shoulder if avoidable.
I with you on "still hunting". Stalking is when I know by sign or sound that I'm slowly following deer.

Same here. Not many bang flops, but I like shoulder roast. Give me onion soup in a crockpot and a shoulder and I am a happy man. In my neck-of-the-woods still hunting is sneaky-snaking.

 

[huntsman]

Still hunting is the slow progression through the woods, hoping to spot game before it spots you. Stand hunting or stump sitting is staying put.

I don't aim at the shoulder on a broadside shot but behind and up, on a facing shot it's a little off center.

 

[entropy]

You are correct on Still Hunting, not your co-workers. I solve the 'shoulder question' by referring to the organ I aim at; The Aorta. (The top 1/3 of the heart) It lies approximately in 'the crease'; that is, behind and just above the elbow of the deer; (the structure of the forleg is different than our arms; the 'armpit' is where the shoulder joins the body, the 'elbow' is level with the bottom of the rib cage, the 'wrist' is the forward bending joint halfway down the leg from the elbow, and the bottom joint is what is our knuckles.) The heart lies about 4-6" inches above the elbow, (or about 3-4" below the shoulder joint) along 'the crease', the back of the leg. Here is a good illustration depicting the heart in situ; it is the target I use for practice just before the season, bow and gun.


Aim small, miss small. Seems to work. Every deer I've harvested, except one, was hit in the Aorta. The one I didn't, I believe I have a fair excuse for; 125 yards with a traditonal Hawken sighted in for 50 yds. I overcompensated and aimed at the shoulder proper, and hit 3" above the Aorta, solid through both lungs, She didn't go far, about 50 yds.

 

[Doc7]

OP here. The blue crosshairs in this image (actually higher) is what I call the "shoulder shot". This is why aiming "behind the shoulder" or "behind and up" from it as huntsman posted is an ambiguous phrase to me.

 

[entropy]

That's for a spine shot. A low probability shot. It's great if you connect, they drop like a sack of potatoes, but if you are just a little off in any direction you get; up : a lot of meat lost if you recover the deer. Down: A high lung only shot, might go 100 yards. Back: Same. Forward: Iffy, If you hit the spine, Drops, if not long track, and possible lost deer.

The Aorta is a much better aiming point. Up, back and fore you hit lung and bronchi. Low, you hit 'elbow' joint, and brisket. Won't go far that way, though some meat loss.

 

[FL-NC]

Still hunting ain't even a thing, says I. I haven't figured out how to walk and be still- maybe I was dozing when they explained that one in sniper school. I prefer to call it walking around and spooking deer, but that's just me. But I am as still as I can be when STAND hunting or on the ground- in a blind or otherwise. As far as shot placement anatomy, the only time I really have had to go into detail is explaining to a new or less experienced hunter what area(s) are good to try to get a bullet to hit to drop a deer. Google images and the tip of a pencil make this process much easier, and you can then call that part of a deer whatever you wish, I suppose. An archery 3d decoy would be better, if there is one handy. I read a story about a guide who took out a brand new hunter and the hunter gut shot a deer because the guide essentially told him to. He said "aim behind the shoulder". So, the shooter just held on the center of the deer's body and let one fly, and it was a perfect shot. It was behind the shoulder. As is the back leg, butt, tail, etc.- really, most of the deer if you think about it. So be sure to specify for a new hunter- which I do with pictures.

 

[huntsman]

To me a shoulder shot is an attempt to break the leg,done so to anchor game. if you punch out the heart/lungs the deer may run but it's dead already.

 

[jmr40]

I'm with you on the terminology of "still hunting", walk slow quiet,pay attention, listen ,look, walk a little more. Usually refer to stalking

Still hunting and stalking are related, but not the same.

Stand hunting is sitting still in the same spot the entire time you are hunting. It could be in a tree stand, enclosed tent blind or simply sitting on the ground.

Still hunting is moving through the woods VEEERY slowly. You may take 2-3 steps and stand still 5-10 minutes. Then slowly take 10-15 steps and stand still for 5 minutes and so on.

Stalking is what you do AFTER you spot game. When still hunting you are looking for game.

Spot and Stalk is where you position yourself to look over a large area. Usually with binoculars or spotting scopes. Once game has been located you develop a plan to stalk into range.

There are also hunters who track game, some use various forms of drives, and sometimes dogs are used to run deer. Probably a few I've forgotten or never heard of.

 

[SoonerMedic]

That's for a spine shot. A low probability shot.

I don't know that I would call it a "low probability" shot. I think, and this is just MY opinion as a hunter and as a medic, that if you connect in that area you are going to drop the deer where it stands. And I say that because, if you're shooting a heavy/fast enough load, it will hit that shoulder bone, shatter it, penetrate and cause cavitation as well as use the bone as a shrapnel of sorts. I would say this shot would be best left to the avid hunter or somebody who has steady hands and can shut off the shakes during a shot. If you know your rifle is true and everything is as it should be, take the shot. I would call it a high probability shot so long as you know where you're shooting. Just my .02 anyway.

Also, from everything I've studied, the best way to explain the shot to an archer or even shooting a rifle from a tree stand, would be to imagine the organs from above, adjust to make your bolt/arrow/bullet exit where you want it to exit to allow vitals to be struck properly.

 

[entropy]

Depends on your shooting ability. I know I could make spine shots under the right conditions, yet I don't attempt them. What I mean by low probability is that as you radiate out from the center of that crosshair, there is less vital real estate. Down and to left is good, up and to the right, not. The probabilities on an aorta shot increase hitting vital real estate immensely. The conditions are not always perfect for making that spine shot, and there's more to go wrong. It's a "show off" Outdoor Network hunting show shot, and Bubba J. Fawndropper sees that and thinks he can do it, too. I try to teach ethical hunting (slipping it into the 4-H Shooting Sports when I can), and I teach and practice Aorta shots for the reasons I mentioned in post #10.
You'll note few Shooting instructors teach spine shots on human targets, and that's done closer in, and involves similar adrenaline dump. They teach COM (heart) shots, sometimes followed by head shots. Guess where I aim on B-27's and such? The Aorta. Then the medulla/pons.

 

[MidRoad]

Like huntsman said, put it through them lungs or heart and it's dead already. Not a critter on Earth surviving with torn up lungs. may not be a "shock and awe" effect on it,but it's going o be dead quick. Not to mention saving some meat from "collateral damage" caused by shoulder shots. Not saying I wouldn't take a shoulder shot if I it was the only option. But boiler room is MUCH preferred to me. As for spine shots, no thanks, I like my backstraps too much!

 

[SoonerMedic]

Depends on your shooting ability. I know I could make spine shots under the right conditions, yet I don't attempt them. What I mean by low probability is that as you radiate out from the center of that crosshair, there is less vital real estate. Down and to left is good, up and to the right, not. The probabilities on an aorta shot increase hitting vital real estate immensely. The conditions are not always perfect for making that spine shot, and there's more to go wrong. It's a "show off" Outdoor Network hunting show shot, and Bubba J. Fawndropper sees that and thinks he can do it, too. I try to teach ethical hunting (slipping it into the 4-H Shooting Sports when I can), and I teach and practice Aorta shots for the reasons I mentioned in post #10.
You'll note few Shooting instructors teach spine shots on human targets, and that's done closer in, and involves similar adrenaline dump. They teach COM (heart) shots, sometimes followed by head shots. Guess where I aim on B-27's and such? The Aorta. Then the medulla/pons.

I guess I'm Bubba J. Fawndropper Jr. then....even though I never saw this anywhere before shooting my buck last season. I just know basic anatomy and the effects of a bullet passing through soft targets at a high rate of speed.

 

[entropy]

And obviously have the shooting ability to do it. Yes, the username of Bubba J. Fawndropper, Jr. would go perfectly with your avatar.

 

[SoonerMedic]

And obviously have the shooting ability to do it. Yes, the username of Bubba J. Fawndropper, Jr. would go perfectly with your avatar.

lol, I only took that shot because that was the shot that was presented clearly to me. I would like to make it clear that that shot would not and will not ever be my first option.

 

[entropy]

 

[Double Naught Spy]

You know, Doc, don't worry about your coworkers and friends not knowing the correct vocabulary. Just explain what you are doing instead of using specific terms and end the confusion.

Since you are talking about confusion, the "heart lung spot" is going to vary in location depending on the orientation of the animal relative to the shooter, being higher or lower than the shooter, broad side, quartered, facing, or facing away. Deer are not 2 dimensional animals. They have 3 dimensions and too many people forget this aspect.

 

[Captcurt]

When I taught hunters Ed for AGFC I had a friend who took his nephew out with a crossbow. When he told the boy to shoot a doe behind the shoulder the boy asked which shoulder, the front or the back? After that I took pictures of deer at different angles and marked the proper place to aim for my students. When I took my SIL out for his first deer hunt I showed him the pictures. He took a buck and doe with perfect heart shots.

Studying anatomy should be mandatory.

 

[SoonerMedic]

When I taught hunters Ed for AGFC I had a friend who took his nephew out with a crossbow. When he told the boy to shoot a doe behind the shoulder the boy asked which shoulder, the front or the back? After that I took pictures of deer at different angles and marked the proper place to aim for my students. When I took my SIL out for his first deer hunt I showed him the pictures. He took a buck and doe with perfect heart shots.

Studying anatomy should be mandatory.

agreed!!

 

[entropy]

Definitely. Too many hunters aim at the brown part.....one reason I don't like variable scopes for deer hunting; it will be invariably on the wrong setting. When all you see when you bring the scope up is brown, it's set too high!

 

[.308 Norma]

Definitely. Too many hunters aim at the brown part.....one reason I don't like variable scopes for deer hunting; it will be invariably on the wrong setting. When all you see when you bring the scope up is brown, it's set too high!

Hah! Yeppers, I've heard that since I put a variable power scope (a Weaver) on my first deer rifle - in 1965. Still, I've had a variable (usually a Leopold) on every big game rifle I've ever owned since.
The solution to the problem of a variable rifle scope always being on the wrong setting, is to keep it on its lowest setting until you need to turn it up. If a deer jumps up close, right in front of you, you're good to go. If you spot a deer farther out, you've got time to turn up your scope. Whether or not you get a shot, don't forget to turn your scope back down before you move. That's worked for me for, lets see, 2016 minus 1965, equals 51 years. And it will probably work again come deer season this year.
Besides, decent fixed power rifle scopes are mighty hard to find nowadays.