Been thinking I needed to get back at it, where do you pick your files up at? I was thinking flea markets but aren't many out right now. Also what else do you use for knife making?
where do you find your files?
- Thread starter ccsniper
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A good place to go for old files are of course Flea Markets, yard sales etc.
Keep in mind though, files "as is" are VERY hard and to put it simply brittle.
A knife made for yourself is one thing but a knife made for resale??
Use a KNOWN Tool Steel with a thought out heat treatment.
Keep in mind though, files "as is" are VERY hard and to put it simply brittle.
A knife made for yourself is one thing but a knife made for resale??
Use a KNOWN Tool Steel with a thought out heat treatment.
Man, the antique shops around here have piles and piles of old tools -- lots of files for a dollar or two each.
How are you annealing them and re-heat treating them?
How are you annealing them and re-heat treating them?
heating them to cherry red, which after that I do all my cutting and grinding, then reheat them to 850(ish) and dunking in old motor oil, least that is what I have done in the past. I don't claim to be know much, but I have made two of em and they seem to hold up well (though they are the ugliest knives I have ever seen)
Hmmm, that seems to be about 600 deg. too cold to reach the critical temperature for hardening and quenching.
The common knowledge seems to be that files were often made of tool steels like W1, W2, or maybe 1095. The critical temperature of 1095 is 1,350 deg.F. Others are a bit higher. If you're not getting to critical temperature (does a magnet still stick?), then you aren't hardening when you quench.
Then you'll want to temper the blade, which usually means heating to something like 450 and holding it there for several hours. And maybe do that two or three times.
There's lots of great info on this stuff out on the web. Unfortunately, even when you get your process more on-line, you'll find that not knowing exactly what kind of steel you have is going to be a problem as critical and tempering temperatures are not the same, even for similar metals.
Valkman
Member
Easiest thing is to order some 01 online and wait for it to get there. That's what I did, never used a file.
http://www.njsteelbaron.com/
Aldo's your source!
Look under tool steels and high carbon steels if you want to do heat-treating yourself.
Aldo's your source!
Look under tool steels and high carbon steels if you want to do heat-treating yourself.
Plenty of steel suppliers out there selling steels of known composition, size, and thickness.
Admiral Steel
Texas Knifemaker Supply
AlphaKnife Supply
Admiral Steel
Texas Knifemaker Supply
AlphaKnife Supply
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Aldo is your source.
I cringe each time I order from Admirral , the last bars of 1095 had some serious bend in them.
I cringe each time I order from Admirral , the last bars of 1095 had some serious bend in them.
Valkman
Member
Valkman
Member
I couldn't find O1 in the Baron site - here's where I used to order it:
http://www.flat-stock.com/~store/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=T&Category_Code=PMGFS
A piece of O1 1/8" x 1" x 36" is $21 and that drops to $19 if you order more. I used to get 5 Small skinners from one bar.
http://www.flat-stock.com/~store/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=T&Category_Code=PMGFS
A piece of O1 1/8" x 1" x 36" is $21 and that drops to $19 if you order more. I used to get 5 Small skinners from one bar.
I used to do this a lot with files. Just try it if you are skeptical! You have nothing to lose but 4 hours. Check hardness with tester before and after!
Files are of pretty good quality steel, especially say a Nicholson,Black Diamond, etc. are generally W-1 or W-2 high carbon. They stand at about 62 rockwell on hardness scale as a file.
You can put them in a kitchen oven and bake them at 400 degrees for aprox 4 hours and they will be in mid 30's (32-35) rockwell range when you pull them out, and a perfect straw color.
Perfect for knife work! Its basically a "process or intermediate annealing" putting it in workable condition. Then you could reheat treat as you wish. I leave them as they are most of the time. Good edge holding ability and sharpen easily.
Files are of pretty good quality steel, especially say a Nicholson,Black Diamond, etc. are generally W-1 or W-2 high carbon. They stand at about 62 rockwell on hardness scale as a file.
You can put them in a kitchen oven and bake them at 400 degrees for aprox 4 hours and they will be in mid 30's (32-35) rockwell range when you pull them out, and a perfect straw color.
Perfect for knife work! Its basically a "process or intermediate annealing" putting it in workable condition. Then you could reheat treat as you wish. I leave them as they are most of the time. Good edge holding ability and sharpen easily.
I wouldn't consider something in the 32-35 rockwell range sufficient for any edge holding.
You want something in the 52-58 range for better edge holding.
Don:
I read a post on BF where Aldo does have 01 , its just not on the site. He also has some 52100 , which I will be ordering some of , love that steel.
You want something in the 52-58 range for better edge holding.
Don:
I read a post on BF where Aldo does have 01 , its just not on the site. He also has some 52100 , which I will be ordering some of , love that steel.
Valkman
Member
Yea I saw the 52100 - would like to try it but never did. Good that he has O1 as it's a great knifemaking steel.
Manhattan Supply can fill you in on your tool steel wants.
Valkman mentioned O-1.
In reality, a blade made from O-1 is ALL the knife that ANYBODY needs!
Best part, you can forge it, bang it,grind it and beat it into a knife blank AND at heat treating time, the steel responds well to a Home/Harden by Eye heat treatment.
My advice is to stay away from the Air- Hardening stuff for home use.
Valkman mentioned O-1.
In reality, a blade made from O-1 is ALL the knife that ANYBODY needs!
Best part, you can forge it, bang it,grind it and beat it into a knife blank AND at heat treating time, the steel responds well to a Home/Harden by Eye heat treatment.
My advice is to stay away from the Air- Hardening stuff for home use.
Yeah, I didn't get why he wanted files til I read to the bottom.
I go to estate sales and auctions to buy (mostly look at) old tools. If I find some good files, I'll buy them to have around.
Maybe I'm a knucklehead, but I like how files from the pre and post WW2 era work.
*shrug*
I buy them at the hardware store in a blister pack and they never seem to do as well...
I go to estate sales and auctions to buy (mostly look at) old tools. If I find some good files, I'll buy them to have around.
Maybe I'm a knucklehead, but I like how files from the pre and post WW2 era work.
*shrug*
I buy them at the hardware store in a blister pack and they never seem to do as well...
I have found a lot of old files on eBay. I know that some people on this forum recoil like Dracula from a Cross when they hear eBay, but I've had really good experiences with them. In over a thousand transactions I've had only 1 problem.
From Sam1911 "Hmmm, that seems to be about 600 deg. too cold to reach the critical temperature for hardening and quenching.
The common knowledge seems to be that files were often made of tool steels like W1, W2, or maybe 1095. The critical temperature of 1095 is 1,350 deg.F. Others are a bit higher. If you're not getting to critical temperature (does a magnet still stick?), then you aren't hardening when you quench.
Then you'll want to temper the blade, which usually means heating to something like 450 and holding it there for several hours. And maybe do that two or three times.
There's lots of great info on this stuff out on the web. Unfortunately, even when you get your process more on-line, you'll find that not knowing exactly what kind of steel you have is going to be a problem as critical and tempering temperatures are not the same, even for similar metals. "
<--Thats good advice....
The common knowledge seems to be that files were often made of tool steels like W1, W2, or maybe 1095. The critical temperature of 1095 is 1,350 deg.F. Others are a bit higher. If you're not getting to critical temperature (does a magnet still stick?), then you aren't hardening when you quench.
Then you'll want to temper the blade, which usually means heating to something like 450 and holding it there for several hours. And maybe do that two or three times.
There's lots of great info on this stuff out on the web. Unfortunately, even when you get your process more on-line, you'll find that not knowing exactly what kind of steel you have is going to be a problem as critical and tempering temperatures are not the same, even for similar metals. "
<--Thats good advice....
Sam,
Aldo plans on carrying O1, and he had some recently. What he had initially, though, was only advertised to existing customers. (Which makes sense- no point in going through all the trouble of changing his website if it'll be a while before he can regularly stock it.)
Sam, when you do some 3V blades, I think 58-61 Rockwell should be in the right range.
John
Aldo plans on carrying O1, and he had some recently. What he had initially, though, was only advertised to existing customers. (Which makes sense- no point in going through all the trouble of changing his website if it'll be a while before he can regularly stock it.)
Sam, when you do some 3V blades, I think 58-61 Rockwell should be in the right range.
John
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