Where to start, where to start.....

Status
Not open for further replies.

Peter M. Eick

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
5,034
Location
Houston, TX
I am continuing to learn about black powder pistols but I need newbie advice.

I went to my local dealer and lo and behold they had a nice Uberti Walker revolver and the dealer had one like it. It handled well and I like it a lot better then the smaller Dragoons or the like. I think I am sold on a Walker, but I don't like to barrel into a china shop without some education.

So quick questions and any advice would be helpful.

1) Who else makes shooter Walkers? It looks like Uberti is the favorite out there best upon web searches.

2) Books, what books should I get and read?

3) I am thinking of getting it from either my dealer or Cabelas (I have a nice credit with Cabelas right now which needs fixing...) Any opinions?

4) What else does one need besides the gun? (Please assume I know little about black powder).

5) Anyone know some place for a good FAQ on black powder revolvers?

6) Finally any tips or suggestions??????

Thanks and still looking and reading.....
 
The Walker is a poor choice for the beginner. It's heavy, doesn't have all the bugs worked out (the rammer frequently falls on replicas, as it did on the originals, the ties up the gun.
The 2nd and 3rd Model Dragoons were improvements on the Walker and those improvements were made for a reason.
A good beginner's cap and ball is the 1861 Navy, which is a streamlined improvement over the 1851 Navy. It has more space around the rammer, than the 1851, for loading conicals if you choose to use them.
The 1861 is also nicely balanced. Like the 1851, it's in .36 caliber.
If you must have a .44, get the 1858 Remington. My Uberti-made Remngton will take up to 40 grains of FFFG under a ball. That's not a pipsqueak load.
Lead balls are more accurate than any conical I've tried, including the Lee, Lyman, Buffalo and others.
If you use a .36, buy .380-inch balls. The .375 inch balls will work but are not as accurate in my experience. The larger ball creates a wider bearing surface for the rifling to grip.
Ball of .380 inch (and many other items) are available from Warren Muzzleloading in Arkansas at www.warrenmuzzleloading.com Visit their website for more info.
If you use a .44, buy .454 or 457 inch balls. The oft-recommended .451 inch balls are not as accurate, in my opnion, for the same reason as given above.
I use a greased, felt wad between the ball and powder (except with the Remington's 40-grain load, there's not enough room for it).
Use black powder, FFFG granulation, if you can find it. It's more accurate in my experience.
I cant' tell you which caps to buy. They come in two sizes, No. 10 and No. 11. Buy a tin of both sizes. If the No. 10 is a nice, slip fit, go with that. If it won't fully seat on the nipple, go with No. 11. Whichever size you uise, pinch the cap into a slightly oblong shape so it will better cling to the nipple. Otherwise, caps can fall of the nipple with handling or from recoil.
Don't throw away those caps that dont' fit! Each time you go to the range, before you load the revolver, place a cap on the nipple and fire it ONLY. This will clear the channel of the nipple of any dust, oil or crud. It will also dry the chambers of any oil.
Actually, I do this twice to be sure. After snapping caps on the unloaded revolver, it's time to load it.
I can't recommend a load, you'l lhave to find that yourself. With either the Walker or Remington .44 I'd start with 30 grains of FFFG or equivalent.
Buy some stiff felt wads from Ox-Yoke, called Wonder Wads. Now, before shooting, melt a little Crisco, Bore Butter or similar lubricant and add the wads. Ensure they are well-soaked with the lubricant.
Ox-Yoke advertises that their dry lubricant is plenty good for keeping fouling soft. I haven't found this to be true so I augment the lubricant by soaking the wads in melted lubricant.
Search this site under my name, Gatofeo, for detailed instructions on making the best lubricant I know. It's a mix of canning paraffin, mutton tallow and beeswax.
After charging a chamber, thumb a greased felt wad into the chamber and ram it down firmly on the powder with the rammer. Do this to all six chambers. Then, seat the ball firmly on the wad.
There must be NO space between powder, wad and ball!
If you use a well-greased felt wad, there is no need to put lubricant over the ball. That wad will not only lubricate the ball, but scrape out fouling as it travels down the bore.
The Walker, and all Colts, have crude sights. They also hit high at 25 yards, as did the originals. Most Colts hit dead-on at 75 to 100 yards, so they hit 6 to 10 inches high at 25 yards.
The Remington repros usually have a very tall front sight, causing them to hit low. You simply find an accurate load, then slowly file down the front sight until the groups get close to point of aim.
Two things to keep in mind, however: Find an accurate load BEFORE you fiddle with the sights, and go SLOW with filing down the front sight. Just a lick or two at a time, then test it at the range. This filing is best done at the range, at a measured 25 yards, from a benchrest, to eliminate asa much shooter error as possible.
Yes, it's tedious. But it's worth it. After all, even if you're just a plinker, you still want to hit that tin can.
I don't suggest you buy a Walker. It's simply not a beginner's gun.
 
Welcome to the ranks of black powder enthusiasts.

Thank you Gatofeo for an excellent post (and saving me time :D ).

The original Walker had two problems. First, Sam Colt recommended that one loaded it all the way to the brim with powder. Ka-Boom as the metallurgy wasn't as good then (and I trust that the modern Italian guns are better). Second, like Gatofeo points out, the loading lever would drop and jam up the gun. Expect it to happen. Nothing wrong as it is a design problem corrected by the later models (loading lever secured with a spring).

My point, don't expect even a well made Walker not to have the latter problem. If you want problem free, go with an 1858 Remington like Gatofeo recommends. After you get experience and want to play, then get your Walker out (if you bought it already). I just don't want your very first gun to be a disappointment and to turn you away from this wonderful hobby.
 
Peter, These two guys have given you the best advice possible. I have two Walkers that are on semi-permanent loan from friends that initially thought they wanted that gun as well but ended up like most of us with either Navy models or Remingtons. If you like big guns and big booms join up with an artillary reenacting outfit and fire six pounders...now THAT is satisfying.
 
Thanks for the advice.

First, no I have not purchased anything. I am just sort of collecting information and deciding what to do. I don't like to rush into new topics with out asking questions and figuring out the background before I spend my money.

SO the Walker will drop the latch. Makes sense seeing as how it is held in there. I can also see that Walkers seem to be fairly common on the resale market. I take it a lot of folks like me see them for the history and not as a very practical gun for routine use.

Do you all have any good suggestions for books to read?

What do you all think of Cimmaron Arms out of Fredricksburg, TX? They are close enough that I thought about a short drive over and buy whatever I decide on directly instead of Cabelas?

In the Dragoons, is Uberti better then the other replica makers? Any advice.

Thanks again for humoring a "newbie".
 
My personal opinion is that Uberti is perhaps one of the best of the Italian gun makers. If you're just interested in shooting, consider buying the Ruger Old Army. It's now available with a shorter 5 1/2" barrel and fixed sights. Since Ruger isn't "duplicating" anything, they've no design limitations like the Italian gun makers who are committed to making replicas for our market.
 
Thanks. I have just been reading all of Gatofeo's comments and suggestions.

I think it is time to fire up the printer some more....


On the ruger, I have looked at it a few times lately, but I guess I want the look of a Walker or Dragoon style. Part of me is just wanting something that looks historic.

I will start homeing in on the Uberti's now.
 
Peter - Don't know what part of Houston you live in, but I would recommend a visit to Rebel Arms in Pasedena. (I assume that they are still in business - it's been about six or seven years since I was there.) If you're into black powder, this is the biggest candy store you will ever see. Pistols, long guns, the works. Even has a firing range out back. Also very knowledgable and helpful. Having said all this, I'll be really disappointed if they are no longer there.:eek:

I've been wanting to go over to Fredricksburg to Cimmaron Arms myself, but havn't made it yet.

Books - Both NRA and NMLRA have good basic instruction books on muzzleloading. I got a freebie copy from NMLRA of
Colt Blackpowder Reproductions and Replicas
- A Collector's and Shooter's Guide
by Dennis Adler
Blue Book Publications, Inc.
8009 34th Ace. Suite 175
Minneapolis, MN 55425
Phone: 612-854-5229
ISBN: 1-886768-11-0
This is a neat book, lots of good pictures of many beautiful guns, has a section on shooting and caring for blackpowder guns, and has a "blue book" section on values of current reproductions.

Hope this helps. Welcome to our addiction.:D

Jim
 
BTW, I'd hold off on spending on books. Gatofeo is on the mark and it's free here. If you have specific questions, just ask. I'm sure he or someone else can help. I'm just here as comic relief for folks who know things. :p
 
Thanks for the continued advice.

I want to get the bookx because I work internationally for extended periods with no email or internet. The books give me something other then work to read, dream, think about for weeks at a time when at sea or in the jungle etc.

I will have to try to look up Rebel Arms. I am on the opposite side of the city but they are closer then Fredricksburg....
 
"I will have to try to look up Rebel Arms. I am on the opposite side of the city but they are closer then Fredricksburg...."

After you visit Rebel Arms would be interested in hearing your impressions of the place. I'd like to visit the place again - maybe next time I'm in Houston.

Jim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top