"Where you have guns, you often have gangs"

[Diomed]

I guess this probably isn't news to anyone, but it did strike a nerve when I read it in the paper. Go after the inanimate objects instead of the actual perpetrators of crimes, always a winning strategy.

Gonzales lauds efforts against gun crime in Va.

BY REX BOWMAN
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER

Aug 17, 2006

ROANOKE -- U.S. Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales met with law-enforcement officials from across western Virginia yesterday and lauded them for their efforts to cut gun crime.

But he cautioned that more work needs to be done to cut the criminal use of guns in neighborhoods, an effort he deemed critical as western Virginia communities contend with drug trafficking and nascent gang troubles.

"We have a problem, no doubt about it," he said. "Where you have drugs, you often have guns, and where you have guns, you often have gangs."

Still, the attorney general was mostly upbeat. After meeting with local, state and federal officials at the U.S. Attorney's Office in Roanoke, Gonzales said he was heartened and gratified to learn they have been working together and sharing intelligence and resources to curb gun violence.

The federal government has pumped about $4 million in grants into western Virginia in the past five years as part of Project Safe Neighborhoods, an effort that targets guns. Since its inception in 2001, the nationwide project has funded the hiring of new federal and state prosecutors, the distribution of gun-lock safety kits and community-outreach programs.

In Roanoke, the police department used a $100,000 project grant to beef up citywide bicycle patrols. In Lynchburg, an identical grant was used to buy a vehicle for the city's anti-drug DARE program.

A key component of the program is the increased prosecution of gun crimes in federal court instead of state courts. Federal gun crimes carry stiffer penalties.

Between 1996 and 2000, the western Virginia district of the U.S. Attorney's Office averaged 87 gun prosecutions a year, said spokeswoman Heidi Coy.

Since 2001, when the project began, the office has averaged 193 gun prosecutions a year, she said, adding that certain prosecutors have been designated to handle gun cases.

And some people actually thought he'd make a good Supreme Court justice?

I suppose then that the families of the people who have been killed recently in central Virginia as a result of high-speed police chases should hold the automobiles responsible as well.

 

[Liberal Gun Nut]

You're taking him out of context. What he said was:

"Where you have drugs, you often have guns, and where you have guns, you often have gangs."

Yes he is blaming gangs on an inanimate object. That object is the drugs. To paraphrase / expand it: "Drug distribution often results in violent disputes over marketing territories. Violent disputes often lead to people deciding to acquire guns. Armed people who are in the drug business naturally form or join gangs."

What he's not saying is that if we took the profit out of selling drugs, no one would have violent disputes over marketing rights for the stuff, and gang members would not be able to afford guns.

And yes I am very very glad that he's not on the SCOTUS. I don't like Gonzales.

 

[mike101]

By taking the profit out of selling drugs, am I correct in assuming you would like to see drugs legalized?

Also, do you know of any politicians who are Democrats, but not Gun Grabbers? Kerry would be one, I suppose, although he did sign the AWB. He hunts, so he must have a rifle or two. However I'm mostly interested in those who are not after handguns, and actually support the RKBA (if there are any). We sure don't have any in NJ.

 

[71Commander]

mikeburk101

Let me get this straight. Are you saying Kerry is NOT a gun grabber?

 

[sterling180]

That article is biased and poorly researched.If you have gangs and you have drugs(A deadly combination.)then the gangs can afford to buy guns,through using drug money.

Any gang member,will get a gun illegally anyway-so blaming firearms,is totally moronic-anyway.Enough said.

Typical Liberal policies,that are similar to the UK Labour party policies.

Silly man John Kerry,he shoots ducks as a recreational activity and should keep his mouth shut.The funny thing is that the antis target all and not just some,so because he shoots-he is a target.

 

[mike101]

TennTucker

Kerry goes whichever way the wind blows. I'm not really sure which category to put him in. As I said, he hunts, so he must at least have a rifle. He can't be a total Gun Grabber, like one of my own NJ senators, the illustrious (no, I didn't vote for him) Frank Lautenburg. Lautenburg wants criminals to be the only civilians with guns, judging by some of the crap he's managed to have legislated. I guess we could call Kerry a Semi-Gun Grabber. He is from Mass., afterall, and he seems to like being re-elected.

I'm just wondering if there are any Democrats, anywhere, who are actually on the side of gun-owners, wholeheartedly. There are some in this forum. They must exist elsewhere.

 

[71Commander]

I'm just wondering if there are any Democrats, anywhere, who are actually on the side of gun-owners, wholeheartedly. There are some in this forum. They must exist elsewhere.

They would be in the South and West, but not the west coast. As to the northeast, no Dem or Republican, ever.

 

[orangelo]

Uh, Kerry rushed to Washington DC right in the middle of one of his primary elections to vote to renew the AWB and ban all rifle ammunition including all hunting calibers. He sure looked at home when he got caught on film doing the thumbs up with his disgusting broodlings (kennedy, schumer, feinstein) all of which voted for the ban.

That was one of the few votes Kerry actually made that year. If he isn't a gun grabber then neither is sarah brady or lautenberg or feinstein or boxer or mccarthy or kennedy or klinton.

Hell if Kerry isn't a gungrabber then George W Bush isn't an ineloquent doofus that bobbles every one of his speeches.

You Democrats would have far more credibility if you didn't spew the party line concerning gun grabbing frauds like klinton and kerry. 'I support the 2nd Amendment really I do! ... but not for peasants like you.'

 

[KenW.]

Where I grew up back East, everyone had multiple guns. But no drugs. They, like strret gangs, weren't popular among daily farmers. I think a better lead-in for this article would have been "Where thare are drugs, there are gangs." Leave the honest, law abiding folks out of it.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

Who, besides the Kerry campaign during an election, even said that Kerry hunts?
He looked like a complete idiot (and made fun of hunters) when he went to buy, "One of them there hunting licenses."
Spoken like he assumed all hunters spoke.

 

[Hypnogator]

Actually, he got it out of order: Where you have drugs, you often have gangs, and where you have gangs, you often have guns.

It's a fact of life.

 

[ID_shooting]

I think what is wrong with this article is the offending statement is backward.

Drugs and guns do not make gangs.

You have drugs and guns BECAUSE you have gangs.

It should read:

"Where you have gangs, you often have guns"

 

[progunner1957]

John Kerry: Unfit to Command

do you know of any politicians who are Democrats, but not Gun Grabbers? Kerry would be one, I suppose.

Wrong. Dead wrong. 100% wrong. Look at Kerry's voting record over the decades - he is the most antigun candidate to ever run for President.

although he did sign the AWB.

Yes, he did. Enough said. Kerry is the enemy of gun owners, plain and simple.

Kerry goes whichever way the wind blows.

Agreed - except on the issue of guns. He is comitted to destroying the Second Amendment, which as a Senator he swore to protect and defend. That kind of hypocracy and complete, total lack of integrity makes him unfit for the office he holds - or any office.

As I said, he hunts, so he must at least have a rifle.

Yes, he does - 2 months before the election, when all the news media is there to broadcast it, and with a shotgun (not a rifle) that he received as a gift in violation of the laws that we commoners must obey.

Does anyone else here have a problem with Kerry's elitist double standard behavior? Why should he be able to blatantly disregard the laws regarding firearm acquisition? The answer: He shouldn't.

He can't be a total Gun Grabber. I guess we could call Kerry a Semi-Gun Grabber.

Wrong. Again, look at his voting record.

he seems to like being re-elected.

Of course he does - he's not stupid! He wants to ride the gravy train of power, prestiege, riches and fame that comes with being elected to the Senate as long as he possibly can.

Where I draw the line is at the Second Amendment. Kerry has worked his whole political career to infringe on - and to destroy - our right to arms. The inescapable truth is, that makes him unfit for public office and Unfit to Command, as has been pointed out by the men who were unfortunate enough to suffer under his so-called leadership during his brief ticket-punching stay in Vietnam.

 

[Baba Louie]

Allow me a chance to fix that quote...

"Where you have ILLEGAL drugs, you often have ILLEGAL guns, and where you have ILLEGAL guns, you often have gangs MAKING MONEY HAND OVER FIST, ILLEGALLY AND TAX FREE."

But, we ALL know it's better to villify the drugs and guns rather than those small neighborhood groups of young free market enterprising capitalist types who disagree with a few stupid laws... like prohibition (when there's a market to satisfy) or competitive survival (of the fit/dog eat dog variety) and of course, ya gotta worry about 'da man' doggin ya constantly about the necessity of obeying those aforementioned stupid laws stopping one from making money hand over fist... tax free...

 

[Tory]

Egregiously misinformed

Also, do you know of any politicians who are Democrats, but not Gun Grabbers? Kerry would be one, I suppose, although he did sign the AWB. He hunts, so he must have a rifle or two...

As I said, he hunts, so he must at least have a rifle. He can't be a total Gun Grabber, like one of my own NJ senators, the illustrious (no, I didn't vote for him) Frank Lautenburg.... I guess we could call Kerry a Semi-Gun Grabber.

.

You're breathing WAY too much of that NJ "air" and reading way too much of the NY Times. Calling Kerry a "semi-gun grabber" is like calling Hillary Clinton "semi-pushy."

Any firearms owner who paid the slightest attention to the 2004 campaign knows Kerry is anti-gun; hides behind the charade of "sport" as the only basis for ownership, and that his "hunt" was staged.

Note also that his "hunt" was ostensibly for ducks and, therefore, did not involve rifles in any way, shape, manner or form. The only rifle he admits to owning is an AK-47 he supposedly brought back from Viet Nam.

IF it is truly an AK-47 and IF he truly has it, do you really think the City of Boston gave him both the LTC and the separate machine gun licenses?

 

[RealGun]

"Where you have drugs, you often have guns, and where you have guns, you often have gangs." - AG Gonzales

Read as cause and effect, it is tortured logic. I believe though as a list of associations it is accurate and no great revelation...not even debatable, if believing media reports. It is still not a very thoughtful or even useful comment except that it can shift the focus from guns to drugs to gangs as the real underlying problem. Of course, the real issue is young people with no jobs, no prospects, and no honor, who band together. It's kind of a circular chicken/egg debate.

 

[zoom6zoom]

The only thing Kerry hunts is rich widows. Any time you've seen a picture of him with a gun, somebody's had to tell him which end to hold.

I'm glad to be an escapee from the Sheeples Republik of Massochists.

 

[mike101]

Democrats Who Aren't Gun Grabbers

First, I breathe South Jersey Air, not North Jersey air. There is a big difference. North Jersey residents are the ones who keep Lautenburg in office. God, they even brought him out of retirement, just when I thought we might get a break. There are a lot more of them than there are of us, I'm afraid. I hope the "South shall rise again", starting right here in South Jersey.

Secondly, I do NOT read the NY Times. It makes me too angry. And, I have never spewed a party-line in my life.

Okay, I forgot that was a duck-hunt, so no rifles. If Kerry supports a bill banning rifle ammo, that would qualify him as a gun-grabber, and an idiot. As far as the AWB, well, you can always get a flash supressor and a 30 round mag. online. My main concern in this last election was not the gun control issue. Too many other things wrong in this country at the moment.

Back to my original question. Does anyone know of a specific Democratic Senator, Congressman, or Governor who genuinely supports the RKBA?

 

[Beren]

Back to my original question. Does anyone know of a specific Democratic Senator, Congressman, or Governor who genuinely supports the RKBA?

The man I wanted for President in 2004 was a firm supporter of the RKBA: now-retired Sen. Zell Miller.

 

[orangelo]

Does anyone know of a specific Democratic Senator, Congressman, or Governor who genuinely supports the RKBA

Zell Miller and Ronald Reagan were both Democrats at one time. I think Andrew Jackson wasn't much of a gungrabber either. As for current dems, hmmm. Good question, I don't think there is any such animal.

 

[mike101]

Since Lautenbutt was brought out of retirement, maybe we could bring Zel back. He could challenge Lautenburg to a duel. I have a feeling he is a much better shot than Frank.

 

[benEzra]

Okay, I forgot that was a duck-hunt, so no rifles. If Kerry supports a bill banning rifle ammo, that would qualify him as a gun-grabber, and an idiot. As far as the AWB, well, you can always get a flash supressor and a 30 round mag. online. My main concern in this last election was not the gun control issue. Too many other things wrong in this country at the moment.

AFAIK, Senator Kerry supported the entire agenda of the Brady Campaign, no exceptions. Sarah Brady supports hunting with shotguns and bolt-action rifles, but she most definitely is a gun-grabber.

I personally believe Senator Kerry was seriously misinformed on the gun issue, and that his positions on the gun issue arise from ignorance rather than malice. He trusts the gun-ban lobby, knows relatively little about civilian nonhunting firearms or Federal firearms law, and therefore was/is easily manipulated by the Bradyites into supporting outrageous prohibitionist positions. (How many times during the campaign did he talk about outlawing automatic weapons? Obviously he is clueless about the Title 2/Class III provisions of the National Firearms Act...)

During the campaign, he promised to fight hard for an outright ban on the possession of a self-loading rifle with a handgrip that sticks out; he went so far as to cosponsor S.1431 that banned the Ruger mini-14 by name and would have instituted California style bans nationwide; he left the campaign trail on Super Tuesday (!) to fly back to Washington and vote for it. This despite the fact that all rifles combined account for less than 3% of homicides; and a common theme in most of his pronouncements on the issue was "gun rights for hunters only" (1 in 5 gun owners, at last count).

FWIW, I am a registered independent and no fan of either W or the repubs, but Kerry was and is stuck in the past on the gun issue.

 

[RealGun]

Note that thread has been hijacked by the "who is a good candidate?" question.

 

[weregunner]

Howdie ya'all from southern Wisconsin. Being in the metro Milwaukee area is interesting. VEEERRRY Interesting,but so stupid.Murder rate here is very high.Violent crime extends even to us suburb types.What to do,what to do.Prayer meetings,vigils,people wringing hands,liberal politicians saying that something must be done and oh yes. Lets blame those beastly guns. What has been done to cure the problem? Here those crickets chirping cause nothing else is happenning.How about enforcing the laws to the max and no plea deals when a felon gets caught with a gun.Enforce the 5 year mandatory sentence when they are caught with a gun.For a area the size as this we are beginning to make Detroit look like paradise.Gotta do somehting about the D.A. s who won't prosecute at all or the activist judges who make the jails have revolving doors.D.A.around here stands for Dumb a--.It is voting season here. :banghead: Think anything will change? The you say. At least I live in a district where we are mostly Republicans. Have to do something about rampant voter fraud here.The prosecution of the people caught here is nil.Da Dems no it and the state A.G.Kegs Lautenschlager von't lift a finger, but beer glasses Yeah voll.Salude?

 

[Phetro]

Yes, he did. Enough said. Kerry is the enemy of gun owners, plain and simple.

Huh? Kerry is the enemy of America. Well, and yeah--gun owners too, by extension.

Maybe France needs a new "leader?" He'd fit right in there (in a number of ways).