Here we go....
5-13 round stages are how we do things.
.22's work great for the 25m program, and then use centerfire for the extended ranges. I recomend "a .22 to learn, a centerfire to confirm" (a Guyism).
Well said Pacer.
We have a loooong thread on using a 10-22 with a GI sling and techsights to train with at
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=32.0 Works great to reduce costs durring the 25m course of instruction.
We do not teach highpower shooting. We teach
practical marksmanship, from standing, sitting and prone, using both hasty and loop slings.
Fact: To hit a human torso at 500 meters, all you need to do is to shoot 4MOA or better.
At an Appleseed, you will learn IMC, NPOA, 6 steps to firing a shot, Rifleman's cadence, the importance of follow through, and history. You will also learn how to diagnose your own and others groups, ball and dummy drills, how to use your sights as a range finder, and how to teach others.
For a lousy 70 frns for a weekend, or 200 for a Bootcamp.
How do you zero a rifle if you can't shoot better than 4MOA?
You don't. Just get them close (ish), and adjust as they improve. Almost ANY rifle/ammo will get you 4moa. Some won't, so change either one or the other. Kinda like a .22, find the ammo that will work best, and find the cheap ammo that will work "good enough" for practice.
heck, i can outshoot wolf/surplus ammo standing and i'm just shooting scores in the high expert to low master class range.
Good, but it sounds like you consider an Appleseed as a compitition. It isn't. It is only you, your rifle and ammo, and that target. And the timer. I have yet to see wolf shoot below the 4moa standard. Infact, the only really substandard ammo I saw was barnaul, once in 5.56 and once in 7.62x51.
However, if your rifle doesn't like a "cheap" brand for real time long distance, get a couple hundred rounds of the "good stuff" so you can participate in the long distance work. I wonder if the problem with wolf (maybe) is a lower velocity causing issues, and that it may be with in 4moa close, then fall appart on out...... Maybe less evident in a 20 incher over a 16? I don't know.
Other things that I remeber, but don't want to go back to find the quotes for.
Disapator barrels are nice, full sight radius, short barrel. Be sure it had the gas block in the right place, about 4-6 inches back, and that it isn't just a chopped off 20 incher.
Ceiner conversions work well, AFAIK. I heard they are on back order though, depending on the source.
16 inches are fine for the AR. Alot of the basic learning is done at 25m. Then, when you get to full range you will know enough to learn if you want to get a longer barrel or a longer sight radius.
Open sights work fine. If you have bad eyesight, we won't laugh at you if you use a scope. A scope won't make you shoot better, but it will help you see better. We may laugh if you break out the bi-pod though. With a proper sling, you won't need it.
GI web (or nylon, dependent on you) are a perfect, if non flashy sling. We don't train for kicking doors and ninja stuff. We train you to hit far away in the feild with practical gear. That other stuff is found elsewhere for more money.
2 mags per rifle minimum, prefer 4.
Any questions can be researched at
www.appleseedinfo.org/smf.
Pacer and I are both Instructors. Funfaler should be. Ken has been with the program for as long as I can remeber.
Give an Appleseed a try sometime. I bet you will learn something.
All we ask is that you leave your ego at the door.
The Guy
ps, we all do this for free because we love doing it. No one makes money off of this thing. We are doing it for the memory of the past and the hope of the future.
For me, the best part is when a kid starts putting things together for the first time, and you see the pure joy at getting nice groups down range.
Or seeing someone come back for the second time, demonstrating that the things you taught them the first time were practiced, and now they want to show you just what they can do
now.
I also, along with some other Instructors, have loaned out my rifles and ammo for others to shoot. Wanna shoot my XCR? My NM or loaded M1A? Try out my pistol grip stock on your M-14? Borrow my 10-22 Liberty Training Rifle for your kid? Just ask....