Which AR: Les Baer TRS or Wilson Combat Urban Tactical?

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Therapydude

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Hello to all. I'm currently in the market for an AR-15 and have narrowed my selection to either the Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special or the Wilson Combat Urban Tactical with quad rail. I like the precision and better accuracy of the Les Baer, but prefer the M4 look of the Wilson Combat. I'd like to add a vertical forearm grip (Tango Down) to whichever firearm I choose. Wilson (with the quad rail) has a full length attachment rail on the bottom side, but the Les Baer TRS has only a small length of rail at the far end. Would that put the grip too far forward on the Les Baer? Would I have to buy a new forearm? I'd appreciate input from anyone with regard to either of these rifles. Thank you for any help you can provide!
 
I plan on using the rifle for self-defense/target shooting/general plinking. Something I could take to Thunder Ranch and use for their Urban Tactical Rifle class.
 
If I had that kind of dough I'd be sorely tempted to buy or build a much cheaper AR with a couple of differant lowers and uppers to handle a wide variety of tasks. I've always found the high end custom guns to have very limited return for the investments with improvments sometimes not being improvements at all.

If you have the money though, they both seem like pretty nice guns. I think a Colt, Bushmaster, Armalite, RRA, Oly Arms, or DPMS would probably do 99% of the custom guns at 1/3 the price. But I'm a value oriented kind of guy, YMMV and all that.
 
Poor Dude

This is just like somebody asking for help when they can't choose between the Mercedes or the Jaquar. I have never handled either of these rifles, but if you can believe reputations, than neither would be a bad choice.

Will Thunder Ranch give a price break on their course if you bring their rifle?

If those are the choices you are set on, I would go with whichever ones leaves the most extra cash free for ammo.

greg
 
As others mentioned, I think you could get more bang for the buck by buying individual parts separately and getting exactly what you want. If you just want to have a nice, high-end rifle then I've heard more favorable things about Les Baer rifles than Wilson; but both are about as rare as hen's teeth around here since most people do opt for the "build your own" route. Most of the complaints regarding the Wilsons concern the "Armor-Tuff" finish which some internet wags have taken to calling "Armor-Scuff".

The AR is really a pretty well thought out system for mass production and there just isn't a lot a gunsmith can do to improve them that you couldn't do yourself just as easily.
 
I think having someone like John Holliger at White Oak Precision build you an upper to your liking, with whatever options or barrel you want, and sticking it on a lower with whatever trigger you want in it will save a lot in the long run. Money saved can be spent on optics (if any) ammo and range time, and White Oak turns out top notch work.
 
I would be amazed if you could not build your own with better quality parts for less.

Then you can spend the rest of your money on accessories.
 
I'll also add my voice to the "overpriced" choir.

Get yourself a Colt 6920 if you really want the best. Change out the parts as you need to, and do it yourself. It'll teach you a whole lot about the firearm that you're going to be using for self defense.

For the life of me I still have not been able to figure out what it is that the Wilson and Baer ARs do that makes them worth such a premium.
 
at the very least, if you're looking for a semi-custom AR, look at rock river

and i'd take white oak over wilson any day
 
Also questioning the whole "boutique AR" thing. High-end 1911s are another story, lots of hand fitting and highly skilled labor make for an end product that's flat way better than what you can get "off the rack". But the AR platform doesn't really lend itself to, or require, that much gunsmith-type labor. You take high quality parts, which are abundant, and put them together and you end up with a rifle that shoots better than 99% of shooters. The only possible exception I can think of would be long-range highpower competition guns, where the space guns from makers like JP and Tubb really shine.
That being said, I would think about the build-your-own route (I did, got exactly what I wanted and paid less money). Or with a reputable manufacturer such as Rock River, DPMS, Bushmaster, etc. Take the money you saved and spend it on high-end optics alternate upper assemblies, and other accessories such as the TG foregrip you mentioned (an excellent piece of gear BTW, you can fit a whole spare bolt in there!). Money is much better spent in this market, because it's definitely "get-what-you-pay-for" territory. Lotta junk out there. You'll find that things like optics, rail forearms, stocks, and other goodies quickly end up costing more than the rifle did. No $600 gun turns into a $2000 gun faster than an AR, I've got the bank statements to prove it ;)
Anyway, just food for thought, free advice worth every penny. No matter what you end up with, you'll have fun... ARs are a hoot. Go nuts, really pimp it out, and then post pictures of it. Then we'll all chastise you and tell you to spend more money on ammo and training. :p

DanO
 
For your uses, you want a standard field cahmber, chrome-lined bbl AR. Ie, a 'fighting AR'. Get a 16" Colt, Armalite, or Bushmaster and love it up!

If you really want a 1/2 or 1/4MOA gun, the stainless bbl Wilson Combat WILL deliver (I can attest to this personally) but I think the better gun is made by JP Rifles. (http://www.jprifles.com/) These would be examples of optic-equiped, bipod-ed ARs. Precision rifles.
 
Neither the Les Baer nor the Wilson rifle is worth having.

$2488.00 for the Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special rifle.
$1910.00 for the Wilson UT-15 Quad Rail.

For $2500, you can build two excellent stock ARs, with optics, or one really trick custom rifle. If you intend to go take an urban rifle course (excellent idea, BTW) I'd rather have two good rifles than one perfect one. Always good to have a spare...

If you want to go the single custom rifle route, my first call would be to JP Enterprises. Take a look at their JP-15 rifle. Pick the barrel length you like best (mine will have an 18" light profile 1:8" barrel,) add a Magpul M93A stock and the mid-power scope of your choice.

- Chris
 
Thanks for all of the input. Basically, I want an AR that is durable and absolutely reliable (as reliable as any mechanical device can possibly be), 16" barrel, collapsible stock, flat top for mounting an Aimpoint Comp M, Eotech, or Leupold CQ/T (haven't decided on optics yet). If Les Baer and Wilson are so overpriced, then what brands should I be looking at? Bushmaster? Colt? Rock River Arms? Thanks again for any help you all can provide.
 
Well I'm not an expert by any means. (just getting into this AR stuff). While I was doing my research prior to buying my Bushy M4gery I ran across a few threads (I think on servicerifles.com or battlerifles.com or ??) where they had instructors from Thunder Ranch discussing what was brought to the classes and how reliable they were. The general consensus was that the Colt (bone stock) was the most reliable followed by the Bushmaster and then the Armalite (I think it was third). They said that most people who showed up with custom "tuned" AR's had quite a few FTF's, etc. I'll look around later and see if I can find the thread. I decided that I could afford the Busy and since they ranked it pretty high that's how I decided. (reliability was my number 1 criteria). They said a chrome lined bored/chamber was an absolute must.

Anyway, take it FWIW. I think if you do a bit of reading (and can sort the BS from the real info)you'll be able to make a decision.

Have a good one,
Dave
 
that's kind of funny since all the ar15's on their website have stainless steel barrels for accuracy that they would state that a chrome barrel is an absolute must........I wouldn't trade my 20" bull barrel stainless steel for any chrome lined barrel..........
 
Thanks for all of the input. Basically, I want an AR that is durable and absolutely reliable (as reliable as any mechanical device can possibly be), 16" barrel, collapsible stock, flat top for mounting an Aimpoint Comp M, Eotech, or Leupold CQ/T (haven't decided on optics yet). If Les Baer and Wilson are so overpriced, then what brands should I be looking at? Bushmaster? Colt? Rock River Arms? Thanks again for any help you all can provide.

If you really want the finest 'fighting' AR you can buy, give Paul at MSTN a call. He builds whatever semi/full auto AR variant the various special forces who pick their own guns want, usually out of LMT stock. http://www.mstn.biz/

Tell him what you're going to do, and tell him you want it to always go 'bang' and he'll set you up.
 
I built two AR's this past year using only the best parts I could find. Both ran about $2,100 each. Since price does not seem to be a factor for you, I would suggest you do the same. Many of the Wilson and Baer parts are very good, but neither of them have a lock on the best for what you describe your needs to be.
 
Put me in the neither category. For that amount, you could have an LMT MRP built by a quality smith, and have a better rifle than either option. For a factory weapon, you can track down a Colt 6920 and add what you want to it.
 
A Colt 6920 might be just what I'm looking for. Even though they are marked "LE only" and Colt won't sell them to civilians, they are legal to own secondary to the sunset of the '94 crime bill, correct? Thanks for the help.
 
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