Which AR round for whitetail deer?

[R.W.Dale]

Krochus,

I read your thread re: .308 vs .310 bullets. Very interesting. What are you using for your hunting load?

I've actually retired from the 7.62x39 game recently. But my go to deer bullet was always the Nosler 125g B-tip .308"

This projectile has a very high BC for weight, works great with the magazine constraints of a x39 AR and most importantly expands well at the speeds this cartridges generates

 

[UnTainted]

Great thread; good read (cept the 762x51 stuff, lol).

So my vote is for a WSSM as well, but the 243WSSM, because of bullet selection and a personal like I have for the 243.

If not that, then my second vote is the 6.8spc.

 

[GPWASR10]

I think the question here is then...

"Can 7.62x39 still take Whitetail in a humane manner withing 250 Yards, with SAMMI spec loads?"

I say yes, provided you are using a good projectile. 'Cause what I mean when I say "Handload" does not mean "Hotload". I mean pick the right charge, Primer, and projectile to "do the job"; be it Target Match Loads, or Hunting rounds (which are to wildly diffrent types of rounds).

White Tail aren't Dugga Boys.

 

[Skylerbone]

Well intentioned. I just don't care for the "my momma uses 6.5, get a REAL RIFLE" sort of banter. I simply tried to answer with my choice within the confines of what you had asked for: It's accurate and effective, compatible with your lower, ammo and an excellent assortment of dies available, it will feed through (though again I would suggest new) your AR mags. I'm not stating my opinion about any other choice, merely my choice which I also viewed as viable for you. All apologies, I too glean information from other posts yet prefer to the point information. I could spend years researching opinion, I simply choose to believe with my eyes what is or is not fact. Beyond that is speculation as to which will achieve more if loaded out of spec or with a longer barrel, not to mention the endless debate about rate of twist and for what bullet weight. You haven't provided us with much to go on, thus the shotgun posts. Aside from your previous criteria what other factors should we consider for YOU? Whitetail only? 125gr only? Stag Arms offerings only? These are further criteria that can help contributors make suggestions that are right for YOU.

Now I'm ranting...again...Anyway, best of luck on your decision, again 6.8 was MY choice, it will work within the previous criteria but further clarification by you may render it a non-option.

Ammo is like a cheap hooker, just because you can fit it in doesn't mean you should, you may not like what you get.

 

[essayons21]

Ammo is like a cheap hooker, just because you can fit it in doesn't mean you should, you may not like what you get.

LOL, I'm going to use that.

I also thought it was funny your earlier comment about OD furniture. Have we met?



Now back on topic...

I'm looking at 7.62x39 uppers by Model 1 and AR15 Performance. Anyone else I should be looking at? I'd prefer a 20", but not necessary. Nothing shorter than a mid-length gas system. Accuracy is important. Fairly lightweight, monolithic top rail preferred, but I want to stay away from a railfarm forend. I'm also not opposed to building from parts.

Any suggestions?

 

[R.W.Dale]

I think the question here is then...

"Can 7.62x39 still take Whitetail in a humane manner withing 250 Yards, with SAMMI spec loads?"

I say yes, provided you are using a good projectile. 'Cause what I mean when I say "Handload" does not mean "Hotload". I mean pick the right charge, Primer, and projectile to "do the job"; be it Target Match Loads, or Hunting rounds (which are to wildly diffrent types of rounds).

White Tail aren't Dugga Boys.

well said well said

because when you get right down to it that 100-150 fps you gain by ramping pressures up above SAAMI spec doesn't mean squat. Less than 5%

Something you'll never hear in the field hunting.
"Darnit! I'da had thatun if my cartridge coulda made it 5% more deader"

 

[GPWASR10]

well said well said

because when you get right down to it that 100-150 fps you gain by ramping pressures up above SAAMI spec doesn't mean squat. Less than 5%

Something you'll never hear in the field hunting.
"Darnit! I'da had thatun if my cartridge coulda made it 5% more deader"

I'm gunna sig that last part! LOL

 

[MJR007]

My 6.8spc and 25wssm Ar "15" rounds.

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[NoAlibi]

krochus

krochus - But my go to deer bullet was always the Nosler 125g B-tip .308"

I'd like to try that bullet in my Colt 7.62x39 upper.

What starting load would you recomend in the powders that you mentioned?

Since the cartridge, as you mentioned, is a relatively low pressure round that I have no experience reloading, would the signs of high pressure that I am familiar with have any bearing on when to stop adding powder?

Also, will there be a problem with case neck tension on the smaller .308 bullet? If so, can the slack be taken up with a Lee Factory Crimp Die?

Thanks - NoAlibi

 

[R.W.Dale]

NoAlibi I'm gonna refer you to accurate arms or lapua's webpage for your load data. That's where I sourced my pet loads from. I am not a fan of judging max loads by brass appearance alone. IMO you should either stop when you reach a max load reccomended by the manual or stop if your brass starts being overworked WHICHEVER COMES FIRST (usually the max load)


As to neck tension my Lyman dies came with a .310" & .308" neck expandet ball. Using the smaller of the two will eliminate any neck tension hanky panky. I do suggest that using the FCD too isn't a bad idea.

 

[Kernel]

Updated my numbers to reflect some of the discussion and comments, and did another comparison of some of the possible AR cartridges. Hold on to your hats, cuz we’re using one chart to look at TWO things - OWG and trajectory for the following:

7.62x39, 125 gr, 2,400 fps
6.8 SPC, 115 gr, 2,630 fps
2.5 WSSM, 120 gr, 2,980 fps

Horizontal axis is range in yards out to 500. Right vertical axis is trajectory in inches. Left vertical axis is OGW in pounds live weight.

Russian vs. SPC. Even though I detuned the 7.62x39 down to 2,400 fps the OGW is still about the same as the 6.8 SPC. The model predicts the effectiveness on game animals would be nearly identical. The Russian is good for a 150 lb animal out to 200 yds, or so. The SPC 250 yds. Not a big deal, IMO. OGW: advantage equal. (You math haters, take it easy. They’re just numbers. Serenity now, serenity now. ). The SPC does have better ballistics. It will zero at 225 yds for a 6-inch point-blank-range. The Russian zeros at 200 yds for the same 6-inch target. At extended ranges the SPC is marginally better, from the standpoint of drop, but not enough to get excited about. Ballistcally: small advantage to the SPC.

The .25 WSSM clearly rules the roost. Here I went with the 120 bullet, as opposed to the 90 grainer in my earlier post. That gives a significantly higher OGW. Higher at 175 yds than the Russian and SPC are at the muzzle. Significantly better ballistic. The WSSM is good for a 150 lb animal out to 500 yds. 250 yds zero for a 6-inch PBR. Drops only 36 inches at 500 yds, AND has the “umph” to get’er done at long ranges. Flat shooting, hard hitting. What’s not to like? Availability? I guess that’s it. One year wait on uppers, someone said.

No surprises, really. Even with these new numbers I don’t think I would change my bottom line. IMO, the Russian is the common sense choice. It’s available, affordable, reloading components abound, and in my view the SPC (or the Grendel, for that matter) has nothing over the Russian. As a deer hunter I don’t think the slight range advantage of the SPC is significant. At least at the ranges that I would engage.

Performance wise, the WSSM is king of the hill, as long as you stick with the heavy for caliber bullets. It does have the largest case, holding 52 grains of water. (The SPC holds 46, and the Russian 36 grains). Handloaders would have a good chance of matching factory ballistics. The trade off is much higher first cost, more complicated conversion, and a long waiting period for parts. If you have the time and bank roll, go for it. It looks like a barn burner. Basically, .243 Win or .260 Rem like performance in a AR-15 platform.