Which BP grade for a .54 Lyman Great Plains Hunter
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dwave
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2f is the powder you will want.
I have found that 3F works well so if I was you I would order, or see if you can get a pound each first, and see what works best for you in your rifle with the bullet you are going to use.
And the Lyman manual lists loads for both 2 and 3 F grades of powder for the 50 and 54 caliber rifles.
On average the 3F loads are about twenty grains less then the 2F loads. So using 3F would give you fifteen more shots per pound then using 2F. If that matters to you.
And the Lyman manual lists loads for both 2 and 3 F grades of powder for the 50 and 54 caliber rifles.
On average the 3F loads are about twenty grains less then the 2F loads. So using 3F would give you fifteen more shots per pound then using 2F. If that matters to you.
That is not true. the 3f packs tighter since it is smaller grain size. Equal volume measures of 2f and 3f would not be the same weight. the 3f would weigh 10 to 15% more. Since you buy it by weight it is not true that you get more shots with the 3f, even though you use a smaller volume per shot.
Art
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scrat
Member
Agree with Frogee. You are measuring by volume not weight. Same time 3f does pack tighter. Does weigh more by volume. as there are more air gaps within 2f however since 3f is smaller in granular size it will hold more and weigh more.
To frogee and scat: You both have a point but you can't give any thing other than opinion. Yes you can say it packs tighter, I take that to mean you can get more by weight in the same space, but you have no data as to how much. You imply that 2F and 3F would be the same. But this is just opinion without fact and you know what they say about opinions.
But the reality is Lyman does give loads for both 3F and 2F for their rifles, and pistols also, so it's really up to the owner of the rifle to determine what is best for his purposes. Or is there dissenting opinion about that?
You know it takes a particularly low individual to have to hide who he is behind another assumed name on a forum that allows anonymous registrations.
But the reality is Lyman does give loads for both 3F and 2F for their rifles, and pistols also, so it's really up to the owner of the rifle to determine what is best for his purposes. Or is there dissenting opinion about that?
You know it takes a particularly low individual to have to hide who he is behind another assumed name on a forum that allows anonymous registrations.
Obviously it is up to the owner to decide what he wants to use. However, he should be able to base his decision on information not misinformation. My dispute is when you say they will get more shots, or somehow free shots, with 3f powder, that simply has no basis in fact.
Art
Art
scrat
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i did not imply that 2f and 3f are the same at all. maybe you should re read what i wrote.
For scat: Actually you should reread what I wrote. It's true I should have written for my audience and removed any ambiguity to make it easy to understand but by the "same" I was referring to how they would pack. And this is implied, or at best not stated clearly, in your post.
And for Frogee: Well I just tested it with my powder measure and goex in 2F and 3F. For 90 grains of 3F measured by volume I get a weight of 84.7 grains. And for 110 grains, measured by volume, of 2F I get 111.9 grains. Now I'm sure there is a variance between powder measures and you can throw in humidity and a few other factors but the reality is those are the numbers that I collected from my experiment. So it seems that your criticism of what I said is unfounded. And it seems that one would even get more shots per pound then I estimated. But individual results may vary, such is life.
And for Frogee: Well I just tested it with my powder measure and goex in 2F and 3F. For 90 grains of 3F measured by volume I get a weight of 84.7 grains. And for 110 grains, measured by volume, of 2F I get 111.9 grains. Now I'm sure there is a variance between powder measures and you can throw in humidity and a few other factors but the reality is those are the numbers that I collected from my experiment. So it seems that your criticism of what I said is unfounded. And it seems that one would even get more shots per pound then I estimated. But individual results may vary, such is life.
scrat
Member
Ok for misfire Your scientifi experiments are pointless. I guess you need to first of all have an audience. by which you do not. Same time im not too sure you even attempted to say how 3f and 2f pack. Now on my post i clearly did not state how they pack as i do not care. Im sure the orignal poster can find a lyman manual and load with 3f. Or can just use 2f. So if this has offended you in any way then i guess it worked. Good day.
dwave
Member
Take it easy guys, we don't want to get disrespectful of eachother.
Alright, in order for the experiment to be at all useful, you need to use the exact same measure and setting for both charges.
Now from the Lee dipper set. A 4.3cc scoop will give 63.2 grs. of FF and 68.5 grs. of FFF, an 8.4% difference. I don't have Goex powder to compare the actual difference in weight/volume of both of the powders. However if Lee is correct then FFF weighs more for the same amount of FF by volume.
*NOTE: Lee doesn't specify which black powder was used to get the data for their dipper set. I wish I had both powders to compare but since I don't this is the best I could do.
Alright, in order for the experiment to be at all useful, you need to use the exact same measure and setting for both charges.
Now from the Lee dipper set. A 4.3cc scoop will give 63.2 grs. of FF and 68.5 grs. of FFF, an 8.4% difference. I don't have Goex powder to compare the actual difference in weight/volume of both of the powders. However if Lee is correct then FFF weighs more for the same amount of FF by volume.
*NOTE: Lee doesn't specify which black powder was used to get the data for their dipper set. I wish I had both powders to compare but since I don't this is the best I could do.
scrat
Member
ok so what you are saying is that the 3f weighs more. and you get more out of it if you. Weigh it and use a lee cc. scoop. Wow sounds familiar.
Yea but that wasn't the question. The question was would you get more shots per pound when you use 90 grains of 3F then using 110 grains of 2F. And I used a black powder measure not a lee dipper to get my readings. And to get near 110 grains with a lee dipper you should use one that's about 8.5 cc. Just about twice as big as the one you used. And I don't think Lee makes one that big. So use a black powder measure and see what you get. I think the difference will suprise you. Oh I just reread you post. So you took this information from Lee's book or pamphlet That came with the dippers. This data is not accurate!! Most of what Lee publishes are estimates not actual measurements. He uses a constant, he calls it the VMD, to multiply to get the grains. So I wouldn't say that his data is absolute, it's an estimate. It is close enough to keep you safe but not good enough for this problem.
After doing my little experiment I suspect that 100 is the mark that is used for reference when making the measure. Then they divide up the space between zero and 100 into ten, or twenty, evenly spaced marks. Then just use that same distance for amounts over 100. That would explain why I got 111.9 for the 110 grain amount and 84.7 for the 90 grain charge. Black powder isn't all that sensitive, it's not bulleye you know, so being off by a few grains isn't that big of a deal.
And hey scrat when you give a blanket acceptance of another man's post you are agreeing with what he says. So if I read your post and the other persons as one it's because you said you agreed with him. If that's a problem gee I'm sorry. But after reading "So if this has offended you in any way then i guess it worked." means you are trying to be an as_h__e. Well I'm sure you didn't need to try very hard. So I really don't know how sorry I should be.
Addendum:
Scrat I am well aware that I have turned into a hard ass as I have gotten older. I try to be a religious man but it seems to be getting harder and harder as I get older. The weight that some of us bear, myself especially, has really hardened my heart. My religious adviser as told me that I have succumbed to anger. The three roads to hell are Anger Lust and Greed. I always thought my main problem was Lust but my adviser says it's anger. So maybe I am over reacting to all that has gone on between us. I will make an extra effort in the future to not do that. I m sure I will not be successful all the time, probably in the beginning it will be most of the time but I will try. But maybe you can help me with this and just give me a gentel reminder when I am not living up to this. I'm not making an accusation but I suspect you also have had a lot of weight to bear and might have a similar problem. That could be the reason we go at each other so much. So in the future maybe we can help each other to be better men.
After doing my little experiment I suspect that 100 is the mark that is used for reference when making the measure. Then they divide up the space between zero and 100 into ten, or twenty, evenly spaced marks. Then just use that same distance for amounts over 100. That would explain why I got 111.9 for the 110 grain amount and 84.7 for the 90 grain charge. Black powder isn't all that sensitive, it's not bulleye you know, so being off by a few grains isn't that big of a deal.
And hey scrat when you give a blanket acceptance of another man's post you are agreeing with what he says. So if I read your post and the other persons as one it's because you said you agreed with him. If that's a problem gee I'm sorry. But after reading "So if this has offended you in any way then i guess it worked." means you are trying to be an as_h__e. Well I'm sure you didn't need to try very hard. So I really don't know how sorry I should be.
Addendum:
Scrat I am well aware that I have turned into a hard ass as I have gotten older. I try to be a religious man but it seems to be getting harder and harder as I get older. The weight that some of us bear, myself especially, has really hardened my heart. My religious adviser as told me that I have succumbed to anger. The three roads to hell are Anger Lust and Greed. I always thought my main problem was Lust but my adviser says it's anger. So maybe I am over reacting to all that has gone on between us. I will make an extra effort in the future to not do that. I m sure I will not be successful all the time, probably in the beginning it will be most of the time but I will try. But maybe you can help me with this and just give me a gentel reminder when I am not living up to this. I'm not making an accusation but I suspect you also have had a lot of weight to bear and might have a similar problem. That could be the reason we go at each other so much. So in the future maybe we can help each other to be better men.
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scrat
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Pm Sent
dwave
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Misfire99 said:
dwave said:
dwave said:
I already said that.
RockRifle
Member
2F or 3F for rifles. seein' as you're shooting heavy in .54cal, I would steer towards 2F myself. I use 4F to prime my flinter, 3F in my pistols, 2F in my rifles.
1911 guy
Member
I'd go with FFg. Running FFFg in anything over about .45 cal limits you to target loads only. I do 50gr FFFg in my .50 for paper, but upping that charge to get an acceptable hunting velocity would increase pressure to an unacceptable level. This pressure/velocity curve is more noticeable the larger your bore size, so running FFFg in a .54 would really limit your shooting to tin cans and paper at close range, you couldn't safely get enough velocity to keep that big ball going. Assuming you are using a ball, running FFFg under a conical would border on silly, since a conical weighs much more than a ball and therefore increases pressure more.
Black powder is sold by weight and measured for shooting by volume. FFFg is more finely ground than FFg, therefore denser. This means that for every "X" grains by volume, the FFFg charge is slightly more by weight. If you shot 50gr (for example) of both FFg and FFFg, you would, in theory, get more shots from the FFg.
Black powder is sold by weight and measured for shooting by volume. FFFg is more finely ground than FFg, therefore denser. This means that for every "X" grains by volume, the FFFg charge is slightly more by weight. If you shot 50gr (for example) of both FFg and FFFg, you would, in theory, get more shots from the FFg.
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