"...which is the way he wants it...

[sm]

Well, he gets it..."

What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week - which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

Captain as played by Strother Martin. Cool Hand Luke, 1967



Preface


Well folks have asked, and have requested. Opportunity came up and this is just sharing. Now I have admitted not attending any known gun training schools, I call my training “Impromptu”. Private Lessons from Folks that have received training, some have used their training to put down respective ‘elephants’ or avoided being stomped on. Yeah- I got my elephants too.

I have nothing against training schools, just we didn’t have them “back when” and I have other reasons / excuses as well. I have my druthers on some matters. Don’t mean I am right – then again don’t mean I am wrong. Each person and each situation requires training for task. My biggest concern has always not having Problem 1, which means NO Problem 2. I think out of the box for a reason, I speak of Mentors & Elders – I am damn fortunate to have had these folks in my life I miss many now passed. My job is to pass forward.

I have nothing against various Competitions. I used to compete in some, I have reasons why I stopped. One being – I needed to be lower profile. Others are …the equipment race, folks attempting to buy skill and targets, and definitions being re-defined.

I have nothing against Strategy and Tactics – in the definition I was raised with. I have never believed in buying skill and targets.

I am a Rebel. Always have been – always will be. In another life being a Rebel and thinking out of the box…damn sure came in handy – still does.



Chapter One.

Remember that Express 870 I bought NIB for $199 less $25 in store rebate?
I walked out paying $174 + tax = $187.05

Yes it had the J-Hook safety. I have proven time and time again I can lock one inoperative so fast, with folks watching, still not seeing me do it – and hand it back and with no key…they are screwed.

Lee Lapin sent me an original safety like the 870s have had since the 50’s. I put in it first thing.

I appreciated this, else I was going to have to get a Vang, turn it down and make one to look like factory as I have done before. I am a civilian. I am not in a position to need a big safety. I’m a relic, I have too many muscle memories of – among other things – a bone stock safety.

I ran this gun hard, put it up wet. I run 200 slugs in a day, that many buckshot loads. I did not clean it on purpose…and all them plastic parts held up. Basically I know what various shotguns will and will not do. Those whom have attended a Awerbuck class, or similar, are familiar with these seasoned sages/ professional trainers will share. There is a reason why the 870 is chosen for and has remained the choice it has for so long. Fact!

Okay, Gun was cleaned when brought home, Original safety installed. While apart the stock bolt was given RIG grease. The wood end grain and all treated with Johnson’s Paste wax, and the metal too. RIG+P used on choke threads. I piddled with various chokes for fun, that done- just left the original factory in – Modified.

Hey, I have BTDT with all sorts of Shotgun stuff. Just gimme a gun and let me shoot the damn thing.

I’m a Rebel remember? Perhaps I turned into to some of my Mentors & Elders. Most likely entered into some of them “dimensions” they spoke of. Umm…I don’t care, it ain’t that big of a deal and I ain’t either. Some stuff has not a damn thing to do with anything but what is in one’s gray matter.

. I even ran 105/100 straight in skeet ( If I want to shoot the target to make big chips so I can shoot the chips again- I will, my time, my fun, and I can). If I want to take 15 doves with 11 shells…just a mix match of “just give me 15 damn shells and I don’t care what”…I will. Okay perhaps #6 bargain basement rusty loads ain’t what is recommended…they needed to be shot up, and the double doves taken didn’t’ seem to know any difference…

I cleaned this 870 with 28” barrel, after doing the entire stuff one is not supposed to be able do with a bone stock factory pump gun for less than $200, took it to where stuff of mine is kept and let it be.

Chapter 2

“Hey, got a buddy that wants a shotgun in a hurry, wanna sell yours for $225?”

My other life taught me some stuff. One being it don’t matter what all I might have inside a business, my vehicle, or my abode. I have to enter, exit and open the door sometime.

One never knows the where or when of next encounter CRSam.

No kidding! BTDT and by golly concealed means concealed, and training the brain is a real good idea.

So this fellow is a…a gamer. He needs a gun ASAP for a family member for HD. Seems it is all fired important he gets this done in a certain time frame, meaning right now. . He already checked locally for a Express, but had to hit the road and …

“Yeah I’ll sell it”
“He wants me to butcher it…Steve…Steve…?”

“I get the wood stock and forearm, the J-hook goes back in…I get to help butcher my gun”.

“Okay, I need the magazine spring, duck plug and magazine cap for another customer”.

‘On my way…”.

Hey, this has NO sentimental value. It was a social experiment, a tool. I did what I set out to do with it…it is not like it is a OLDer used Wingmaster, or Used Older Police trade in…it is a frigging tool no better than the person using said tool.

Well there was that part about me getting to do some impromptu teaching. I needed the break from just finishing a fall semester, and other life stuff going on…

 

[sm]

Chapter 3.

It really sucks to not have the eyes I used to have. Then again not having an ego allows me use a Opti-Visor to see what the hell I am doing. So I take my gun all apart. Gun buddy gets out the new stuff. While he gets to play with changing safety out, I get to play with lathes, milling tools, little lathes, inhale the smell of Tap-Magic ( that is some good smelling stuff) and make metal shavings.

“You are not feeling bad about doing all the stuff you don’t care for…you sick or something?’

“Nope, I’m hungry, other than that I am good”.

“I know that look and tone, you are up to something, and I am going to be involved aren’t I “.

“Yep, and I figure since I already have the cash in my pocket, I have dirty hands, you have more of this fella’s money – he gets to buy us lunch”.

“What are you going to do while I run down the road?”
“Wash my hands and shoot something out the safe…that Model 29 ready to go?’
He sets the ammo for the Model 29 on the counter and leaves. I had to go out back and protect the joint from mutant ninja plastic Folgers Coffee containers. Somebody has to do it…

So the dimples have been drilled out, and the steel “tool” been used to smooth the insides of NO burrs, also it is ever so slightly belled. This keeps the shells from any hang-ups from the magazine extension, total of 8 rounds capacity now.

The barrel is now – something more than 20” – heck I don’t know, it is longer than magazine extension. He measured; I play with the high-dollar band saw. Main deal was to hit the sweet spot where vent rib attached to barrel to have strength After I cut – got to have style points you know, I used the mill to cut the vent rib back about ½” and rounded the front corners. I do the pilot hole for oversized front bead.

Since this is not a plain barrel, putting into a lathe to cut a “crown” is not a option. That is okay, I shared a trick about too many years ago with my gun buddy and we made tools to do a crown on vent ribs akin to what used on handgun and rifle barrels. Yeah I still got the touch; got to use a Opti-Visor now to see what the heck I am doing…still got the touch. My background includes working with other metals, granted on a smaller scale. Principles are principles – just I adapted a little trick of the trade applicable to a bigger tubular pc of differing metal…

So he puts all the tacticool stuff for a HD gun this fella “says” his family member “just has to have”.

I must have not gotten this memo, I’d have probably tossed it anyway…

Choate full stock with pistol grip , magazine extension, 4 shot side saddle ( because the forearm is going to be full size and more capacity one wont’ allow full travel). The trick here is to use black silicone ( gotta be black to be tactical) this adheres, is removable and give flex with recoil. Yeah whatever- sure it does that, what it really does is keep stuff lined up for the funky screw and allen-head screws.

“Well here it is”.

I’ve been watching. Piddling but watching. I have no desire to handle this thing, it ain't me.

“Err…I know I am a relic, but why is there a sling swivel stud screwed into the side of the buttstock?”

“So when you drop the gun with the sling on order it bangs into your gonads and protects them”.

“Learn something new everyday I swear…”

 

[sm]

Chapter 4

Chapter 4

I will mention again I have nothing against proper tools for the task. I will mention again Gun Fit is a huge thing with me. The key is gun fit to shooter for task. Now back when the earth was flat, Plaxco shared how one learns the correct basic fundamentals and continues to learn and practice these. Plaxco that day and I were shooting shotguns. Plaxco can shoot anything; shotguns, rifles and handguns.

Shooting from Within – J. Michael Plaxco, is not only a great book, the title itself should tell a shooter something…

Ever heard of Get where you can hit ‘em with a stick…? Well that is Plaxco, that is MANY folks, that is where I wanted to be. Just gimme something and let me shoot the damn thing.

Older fella I wanted to have join me, is in too poor of health. Former SWAT member from another State; the one whom shot and killed a guy after being shot himself, after he bounced off the pavement with his J-Frame BUG gun, weak- handed. BG was DRT. Willingness to survive is not something one "buys" it is learned and trained for. Ingrained and repeated. That is just the brain part, then one does this with other tools like firearms, defensive driving, non firearms weapons...

Instead I had the assistance of someone whom served in the Military, BAMF, you figure out the Acronym, his wife has some experiences as well. They happened to be in town, lucky me.( or did I know something?) Some things need to remain private; I will say we have a history. He has shown up for 3 gun events for fun. Used a bone stock Gov’t Model of 1911, bone stock Model 12 and M1 Garand. He does very very well and totally pisses folks off.

I will call this couple Bogart and Hepburn. Protects whom they are.

His wife is 5’ 1” on her tippy-toes, 120#, and even though this couple is in their mid-fifties…this lady can shoot 200 rds of slugs out of a bone stock pump gun and not be rattled, fatigued, flinch or bitch about it. Picture the lady at day care, or local small town librarian.

We are going to do some shooting when the Gamer and his Father –In- Law show up. Father –In- Law is the one in “dire” need. Actually…

“That is the ugliest damn thing I have ever seen”. No wonder my daughter damn near divorced you, still thinks she shoulda”.

Oops! We “seem” to have wee bit of a communication problem. Scratch that – we gots a big one that is gonna cost monies. It is said one cannot change people, places and things. They have to hit their own bottom…sometimes that means the pocketbook, getting divorced…or worse.

Father-In- Law used to shoot clays, still bird hunts, has shotguns. Just been busy with other matters, recovered from a minor surgery, and what he “said” was he was considering a beater HD gun for spot he and some fellas use out in the country.

I mean they come armed to this fishing / hunting camp- still having a thing or two in the hidden safe for backup not a bad idea. I will get out of timeline and share they bought a Maverick Pump NIB for $134, and one of the bunch had a Mossberg short bbl he gave $30 for. A used police trade in Ruger someone else bought for $135 back when serves as the .357 handgun. Now in said hidden, lockable container for this get-a-way.

Son-In-Law has paid me $225, the gun has been modified, it can be put back…somewhat. I have the removed parts I get to keep as part of the deal; including the muzzle of barrel with the Modified choke still in it.

He has spent monies for parts he had gunsmith buddy order and install. The barrel is now a open choked gun. It will cost money to have chokes installed. At least there is a lot of “meat” – wall thickness- in which this may be done.

I do not want the gun , Father- In- Law does not want the gun, so we have a “tricked out gun” nobody wants in our midst, with monies invested and Hepburn says she will give him a C note for it. Ouch! Bit of hit…Gamer declines…not in a good spot to be in.

Mrs. Gamer steps from around the corner, Gamer’s son is up at the house , Gunsmith’s wife is keeping tabs on him. I do not want the Gamer to lose face with his son, besides; he comes in to play later.

Mrs. Gamer is not very happy at all. Oh, she has her reasons. Like Gamer taking HER 1100 her daddy (FIL) gave her and Gamer messing it up early in the marriage; Sentimental I might add, being it was her mother’s whom has since passed.. That costs a new gun and the threat of – forget about no sex or sleeping on the couch, we are talking having to squat to pee for the rest of his life.

Divorce may still happen, they are back together as of this writing. Still Gamer spending over $15k in gaming guns alone in one year, trying this, trying that, not being there for her or the son…You would be totally blown away if I were to share how much money this fellow has spent in gaming guns.

Sage Advice: A responsible firearm owner has more monies invested in training, lessons; ammo sent downrange, fighting Tyranny, and protecting Freedoms.

More Sage Advice: A great shooter will have more monies invested in lessons, training, ammo spent downrange, than the guns themselves.

Figure in time off and away from wife and son, out attending events, and spending these monies. Understand the wife does not want control; not wanting him to not have fun, participate, hang out with the boys.

Just a little common sense, him not to lie and sneak monies out of agreed savings, investment accounts. Not to get into her money her mother now passed left her. How low- down to steal the wife’s sentimental gun , her now deceased mother’s and whack and hack it for a gaming gun and lie about.

You do not tell a kid he cannot attend a summer camp, something the really smart kid not only really wants to attend, but most folks would encourage a kid like him to attend. Instead the daddy wants to use that monies for a new custom gun to shoot faster and score better,

Get the picture?

I am not one to meddle and I damn sure do not want folks meddling in mine.

What we have here is akin to an addiction, with mental abuse of wife and child. For the safety of the boy and herself, separation happened, divorce papers drawn up and on hold.


Wife CCWs two used Police trade-in wheel guns, one is a K frame, the other a J Frame. She is very very good with both. Her HD gun is a 870 20 gauge combo shotgun -bone stock.

She and her dad have attended some training together. Yes that kid attended his summer camp, grandpa and mom made sure of that. Word is – what a neat get together when the kid got back. Him sharing all his cool stuff, stories, t-shirts , hats and pictures and grandpa and mom sharing theirs. Quality family time swapping stories and trying on the T-shirts and hats bought for each other…

--

Safety Rules observed, we each had a designated Safety person, we had safe backstops.

I am a bit rusty; my eyes are not what they used to be. There is a real world out there without timers and stages.

Gunsmith has been informed, as has Bogart, Hepburn, and Mrs. Gamer. We have our training tools. Stuff like Nerf cut to look like handguns, and knives. Canes, shotguns with PVC barrels, RG handgun painted blue, cylinders/barrel filled with orange plastic, Beretta Semi with firing pin removed, blue tape, and its bbl filled with orange plastic.

Nothing wrong with having a long-arm in the home, business, vehicle, or cabin; my concerns have always been with entering, exiting, or answering the door.

One does not always have the shotgun, long-gun option. Like leaving, exiting for work, and not many folks probably answer the door for a Pizza delivery with a shotgun in hand.

--


Pavlov’s Dog .

Get the timer out and Gamer is set to go. He has “seen” the stage and done a “walk thru”. He has one of his competition guns in one of his competition holsters - 1.0 seconds from draw to target.

I’m standing there on the “line” with gamer, he is showing me his set up and such...and out of nowhere a Nerf ball about 8” in diameter comes sailing over my head and to my right., no timer, no walk thru, and no nothing. Gunsmith buddy can pretty much gauge someone’s time just from experience. 1.3 is my "time” Gamer never saw the BG or even went for his gun. We use Nerf balls as BG targets. They are silent unlike tossing coffee cans. BGs may choose to shoot first, holler out later…


I was using a Keltec P-11 in a High Noon IWB at 4:30 from concealment. Only mod this gun has, the factory finger extension on factory magazines. My “niche” gun I call it.

Pavlov’s Dog will get you killed.

--

The tricked out shotgun is to be shot. He likes this set up, shoulders and piddles with it. He loads it up and is ready to go…”Got a smudge on your shooting glasses” I mention…
He hands this gun to me; he is watching me as he cleans his glasses. I hand the gun back and he wants a timer.

“Beeeeeep!”

Grunt , cuss, fidget, cuss, ….I am dangling the green J-hook safety tool.
“You had a real nice turnout for the funeral, rained of course, always does….”

“You are beginning to piss me off Steve!”

“You just wait; you will hate my guts before I am thru. I am totally pissed and this is MY world. You have a great wife, great son in there that needs a daddy. YOU could learn from your FIL. Now shut the hell up and let me do my thing!”

Mrs. Gamer is cool, she has arms crossed and wearing “that look” which includes those eyes…no need to explain, you folks know of what I speak.

Gamer is taller and heavier than me. A little guy can beat a bigger guy if in the right and keeps coming at him. I was just getting my head of steam going.

Bogart steps up to gamer. “Son, you ever been shot at?” You ever been in a situation where you where in immediate danger of being the target of lead or lethal force against you?” Well some of have, and some of us are here in your midst. A wise person will shut up when told to and listen. A Fool will ignore.

“Has Steve….”

“Let’s just say Steve has seen some elephants…
…I’d say my buddy has a right to be pissed, I am, my wife is, your wife is, gunsmith fella been trying to tell ya… seems you are in the minority here…

Hepburn turns to Gamer’s wife, you sure hon”?
“Yes”.
“Oh Goody! Now sweetie, you get the honors when the time comes you get to say…”



Epilogue.

Process of editing...stay tuned.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Dang it Steve...

I'm supposed to be vacuuming , and I keep coming back here to see if you added anything.

I'm gonna be in trouble if the vacuuming doesn't get done.

 

[sm]

Larry,
I vacuumed earlier.

It will be later on before I get to edit and post. I have to be out and about. Run some guns, and do some errands. Put it this way, if I get pulled over and by law I have to show CCW permit ( I only have to show the resident one, not the "other one" ) And officer should ask "You got any guns?"

"Whaddya Want to see officer".

Got some empty Mason Jars too.... Hopefully the folks will appreciate me stopping by and I get one filled with Fig Preserves in trade.

Naw...just gets into some of "Indian" versus "Arrow" stuff Dave brought up in his thread. *grin*

pssst...Larry, Sandy is gonna notice you did not pull that chair away from wall when you vacuumed. Go on...before you finish wrapping the cord to put vacuum away...unwrap the cord and do it right.

You are welcome Sandy *smirk*.

 

[Fred Fuller]

There is something to be said for not having a lot of emotional attachment to a working tool. It helps keep some things in perspective that might otherwise cause trouble. I apologized once about thirty years ago to an early mentor for having a pair of inexpensive binoulars when he asked to use them. He looked at them- "7X50s, armored, coated optics- what else do you need? Never take anything into the field you can't afford to lose, break or trade/throw away- just common sense. Inexpensive is not cheap, and inexpensive that works is what you want to use." This offered by someone with a background of Vietnam era Special Forces and service in SOG carried weight with me then and always has since.

There is such a thing as "good enough." Oh, I hear the question sometimes too- 'how much is your life worth?' As if spending ten times as much or more on a given piece of gear will make you a better user of said gear. Anything that is tough enough and reliable enough is good enough- if YOU are good enough. The point is to be good enough, or get good enough while you have time and space to do it.

It's not something that comes from a store in a box and bolts onto a gun, fits on a belt or slips into a pack or pocket.

lpl/nc

 

[proven]

intersting points, and well said. although i do place a bit of 'sentimental' value on a couple of 'tools' i use, if it were a make or break situation, that value would get flushed fast. as for the value of my life, it's defiantely worth 'using' the best tool at hand, regardless of material value. i've talked before about guys who won't ccw their high dollar 1911s that are more reliable and that they shoot better, because they don't want to scratch them up or have them confiscated should something go down. the same goes for training with what you intend to use. some guys won't take their normal carry pieces or leather to schools because of rolling in the dirt. this all plays into the 'sentimental' value thing, and the 'i don't want to mess up my best this or that'. i guess bottom line being find something that works well and 'use' it without concern to monetary or any other value. this applying to defense situations, of course. collectables are a different matter.

 

[sm]

Apologies

What Started out to be a thread in regard to - along the lines of Dave's "Indian not the Arrow". Got a wee bit sidetracked.

I normally walk away from some folks. In this case, being there was a mom and boy involved, the daughter and grandson of the person whom "needed this shotgun" . I got "involved".

Read: I got totally pissed , went full bore, and shared some lessons. Strategy & Tactics. Now I got to figure out how to put all this down, re-write, re-edit.

pax I see asked in another thread, why folks do not take training. This came into play in these sharing of lessons.

Moderators, this may not be totally "shotgun" related. I will leave this up to you once I figure out to write this. I totally suck at expressing myself.

There a few times I asked where his high-dollar shotgun was. Then I could not believe he was not CCW-ing.

For instance why one is ill advised to use some drive-thrus.
How to leave a place and being in fear, use a cane to keep the BGs from exiting the place - cane on exterior of doors, doors cannot open, gives time to get into vehicle and leave.

The eye opener was Pavlovian behavior. No timer, no start signal, no warning. Add the inablity to do a 'walk thru" to figure ones shots, reloads,and projected time. We practiced safety, still a pack of rabid dogs were used, and ya know that part about " can't miss fast enough to win"? Real live targets do not act like teddy's or poppers. Really.

Demonstrated how to run a shotgun , pick up a lady / child injured, and get the heck out of danger. How to use a shotgun one-handed to cover a BG and dial a phone. Hint: 12# shotguns, with $ 1500 or whatever invested , is not as easy as it seems.

I am out of shape, tired, and we did these things in wee hours. On purpose was to show how sleep depravation affects a lot of things.

There is more to responsible firearm ownership than firearms.

I play for keeps lest I not make it back.

Steve.

Whom broke Nova #5 on this dealie. Hey, at least I didn't "kilt" any vacuum cleaners.

s