which one for Bug Out?

[amprecon]

I have always wanted to like the Ruger Mini rifles, they are just so handy like the .30 carbine. However, I just can't be satisfied with their mediocre accuracy. I also don't like the .223 caliber and heard that their barrel dimensions aren't right for the 7.62X39. I understand the 7.62X39 is actually .311" but Ruger makes their barrels .308", never understood that if its true.
Ruger has come out with a 6.8spc, a caliber I am a huge fan of BTW, but fail to upgrade to the new specs, SPCII, but again, I've heard of accuracy issues with their 6.8 too. So I wrote off the Mini in 6.8spc, which I thought would be the perfect one-and-only rifle to have. So I "settled" on an AR in 6.8spcII. Of the choices you have there, it'd be a no-brainer for me, I'd keep the .308.

 

[christcorp]

Unfortunately, SHTF/Bugout means different things to different.

1. If you're looking at possibly having to SURVIVE off the land, the the 22LR is the BEST weapon. You don't need to kill elk and moose. No way to store it. A 22LR CAN take down a deer, and many small game like squirrel and rabbit. PLUS, it's sound will not be heard all over the country. People won't be able to track you down. With Sub-Sonic ammo, you can take out survival food like squirrel, dog, etc... even in your suburban back yard. For survival, food, I WANT a 22LR.

2. If I was truly leaving, bug-Out, chances are that i wouldn't be around a lot of people. A good handgun will be just as good of a defensive weapon. Rifles are designed for longer distances. Therefor, for holding your ground and protecting your stand. Well, if you're bugged-out, there's not really much to be holding your ground for.

truthfully; most people if they really had to Bug-Out, they would probably be heading to a friend/family location away from where they're at. For true survival scenarios, most people wouldn't survive. They wouldn't know how. They'd try shooting hi-power rifles and alert the entire world to their location. I live in Wyoming. There are some of us that could literally drive within an hour or two, and totally disappear off of the grid, where no one could find us. Not because we're in the middle of no where, but because we won't let others find us.

If it's a Katrina type scenario, or urban man-made scenario, then you'll probably be just as effective with a pistol in public and a rifle at home. If you're standing on the street or on your roof with a rifle, you're going to appear to be a threat to many people. A pistol, you can conceal. In a real katrina/man-made type of SHTF scenario, you can't rely on the police to be there to help you. But you CAN COUNT on them to be there to stop you. Legal or not, the fact is that during Katrina, local police disarmed MANY residents. Yes, the courts said that was illegal. But that was after the fact. During a situation, the police aren't going to wait around for a court date. If the local mayor and law enforcement believe they must create their own form of marshal law, they are going to do it. Walking around with a rifle is freakin stupid. Keep the rifle for home. And if you have to shoot anyone, try and keep it a low profile. Same with a pistol. If someone during a SHTF/Katrina type scenario tries to rob you in the chaos, and you have to shoot them, then simply continue on with your life. Keep moving. Don't call police. Don't allow yourself to be detained. Don't allow your weapon to be confiscated.

Anyway; the mini-14 and 308 are great rifles, but unless you believe you're going to get recruited by the local police or military to help maintain order, there is very little chance of you using either weapon to protect yourself during a SHTF situation. Day to day, you can get away with it as a home defense. During SHTF, society will panic. Police and authority will try and play it safe by disarming individuals. Especially those standing on the street or in their yard with an AR/AK/Mini/M1, etc...

 

[thedrewcifur]

i recommend any good bolt action rifle in .308 or .30-06. also a folded up 9mm kel tec sub 2000 carbine in your ruck. bolt gun for long range defense and hunting. sub 2000 for close range defense. but of course rule 1 in a SHTF kind of world is to not get in a firefight. and of course ether a long barreled .22 pistol or a .22 rifle you can takedown.

 

[Water-Man]

Sell both. Buy a dependable rifle such as Colt, BCM or DD.

 

[Supertac45]

I'd get rid of the Ruger and pick up a decent AR-15 and also keep the M1A.

 

[FullEffect1911]

Pick the one you have more fun shooting. Sell the other and buy lots of ammo to have on hand and practice regularly.

Since it is not likely you will need the rifle for such a scenario you may as well enjoy the rifle and become more proficient with it in the event it is needed.

 

[Art Eatman]

I'll go along with FullEffect1911. For self defense with a rifle, any of the semi-autos will do as well as any other. They all shoot minute of cranium.

Survival hunting? Avoidance of other people is part of the deal, and you wouldn't care about game laws and ethics. So, a .22 rimfire between Bambi's eyes via flashlight and you'll have meat--with little noise to attract attention.

 

[Patriotme]

Sell both and buy a quality AR. Sorry about your experiences with Bushmaster and DPMS. I've got a Bushmaster and it's a fine AR but I would prefer a Colt or BCM for anything important. Prices aren't that bad right now and we don't have the political fear buying that tends to drive up prices and drive down quality (as production ramps up).
Use the extra money to buy a decent scope, mags and ammo since you're worried about SHTF (can't believe this thread is still open).
BTW, did you know that you can get a .22lr conversion kit for AR's? Reliability seems kind of hit or miss but I've had good luck with mine (CNMG stainless) and it does allow you to shoot two different calibers in one rilfe with only a bolt carrier group and magazine change. Something to think about if space is a consideration.

 

[charcoalburner]

My 2 pennies

To the OP:

I like both of those rifles and I have experience with each, but I have to go with Art and FE1911 on this one. Pick the one you enjoy shooting the most and if you have to, sell the other. Ammo can be stocked up, especially if you reload and lets face it, if your bugging out, then you are going somewhere and should have a cache of supplies at your destination if you have planned ahead.

Survival hunting? Do a little more research and I think you will find that you can trap or snare small game a lot more efficiently than you can shoot them. A little bit of metal wire and you can have the ability to catch game in multiple locations 24 hours a day, 7 days a week without any unnecessary noise!

As far as those who threw in the sell both and buy an AR, I don't agree. An Ar is not for everyone and requires a little more training to operate efficiently than an Mini 14 or SOCOM, not to mention disassembly for cleaning and maintenance. Good choice and a good rifle, but be prepared to devote the proper time and effort to using it well.

To Patriotme:

Have you had any problems with lead buildup in the barrel,gas tube, or bolt face area with your conversion? That would be my concern on using a 22LR conversion kit in an AR.

Good thread here, but I am surprised its still alive and unlocked. Usually any "survival type" thread posted here gets the Mod LOCK DOWN!

 

[HammerheadSSN663]

Neither. SHTF guns should be a hot loaded 22LR(or magnum) in semi rifle and 4-5" revolver.

All this talk about shooting big game in an apocolypse scenario is way over blown. most folks are city or suburban dwelers like me and unless you have the knowledge and capacity to hunt big game you're gonna starve. plus, where you gonna keep all that extra meat? Also, any badguy about to get hit with a 22 is gonna think twice about advancing.

better plan to shoot birds, squirrels, cats, dogs, etc. with the 22 and fish with traps with the small game leftovers because you don't or wont have time to sit there all day and hopefully catch one or two fish.

 

[Boomie]

There might be a point to this question.

During the last big "ammo scare" of a couple of years ago, the only ammo I could find on the shelf at Wally World were .25 acp, .22 CB shorts, and .22 WMR...

Yeah. If the apocalypse happened after the start of deer season in Northern Virginia, DO NOT expect .308 or 30-06 to still be on the shelves.

 

[Averageman]

.308 is the way to go, you have a handy rifle there. I would stick with it.
I think you have the accuracy and penetration to do about anything you'll need. I would get about ten extra magazines though.
I always wondered when people say they will "Just go out to the woods and shoot a Deer." wtshtf; who else would be out there, know the woods and the deer in that area better and be waiting for Bubba to show up?

 

[ECVMatt]

Sounds like you shoot the Mini more often and enjoy it more. I would either hang on to it and be happy or like the others have said, sell them both and buy a good AR. I have had an AR for quite some time and it has taken me a while to warm up to it, but it does shoot much better than my old Mini and parts are everywhere. I know there are lots of fine Mini shooters out there and I got some great groups with mine, but I consistently get better groups with the AR.

 

[bikerdoc]

Just a thought for discussion. Lets get one step in front of the decision to sell, the bug out. I am not in the the bug out crowd. I am already where I can defend, hunt, and fish, surrounded by a few like minded relatives. Keep both.

 

[fragout]

Since you mentioned in your initial post that you plan to bug out via vehicle, and that you have a variety of other scoped hunting rifles and a shotgun.....

I would suggest that you keep both and sell some of those others off if you have to tone down the herd. Keep a decent rifle chambered in 22lr however.

If you must pick between one or the other, then sell the Mini14 and keep the M1A. Spare parts are easy to obtain compared to the Mini. Since you own both, it is obvious as to which iron sighted rifle has the better sights.

The only reason that I would consider ANY rifle chambered for 5.56mm/223 as an advantage over a rifle chambered in 7.62mm/308 in this case, is if your space available in your vehicle is limited in terms of hauling ammo. More 223 can be had in a given space compared to 308. ( I dont buy into the finding of ammo post SHTF either..... and just as likely to find a rifle with a half loaded AR mag sticking out of it regardless...lol)
Then again, shotgun shells fill up more space than either, so the shotgun could be sold off, if space for hauling ammo is limited.

FWIW..... I would choose a well built M1A/M14 over a well built AR regardless, and have not missed my Colt one bit. Same for 2 Mini14's, 1 Galil, Rem model 7, 112 Savage, HK93, and an AK chambered in 5.56mm. ( I sold off all 5.56mm rifles after being involved in operations in Iraq and Afghanistan). All SKS/AK rifles were liquidated, along with various bolt action rifles in a multitude of calibers. M1 Garands were also sold off, as well as my HK91 and FAL. Also put all but one shotgun on the chopping block. I still have all my rifles chambered in 22lr however, along with most handguns.Decided to keep the M1 Carbines. (Wife and kids love um)
Besides...... if you like the ergonomics/manual of arms of your Mini and Socom, and shoot them well, then switching to something else isn't all that great of an idea anyways.

7.62x51mm/308 is the more versatile caliber between the 2 being discussed here IMO, and from my experience with both. Effective range, and penetration are more important to me vs lightweight, and especially if the plan calls for bugging out via vehicle.

FYI....... A 20rd M14 magazine topped off with WIN Q3130 = 1.5 lbs.
SAI states that the Socom weighs in at 8.8lbs, but I have 18in barrel versions that weigh in at less than that.

You could always consider a bigger vehicle

11B

 

[Patriotme]

Charcoalburner:
Nope, no lead buildup but I don't use the conversion kit a lot. I always shoot some .223 or 5.56 after I'm done with the .22lr as I've read that this helps clean out the gas system. I don't know whether or not this is true but it's easy, takes a minute and gives me peace of mind. I'll probably use the conversion kit at a local indoor range a lot once the winter gets here and my outdoor range starts closing earlier. I also only use copper jacketed ammo with this kit. Again...it may not be necessary but it gives me peace of mind.
I will say that I've used CNMG's .22lr conversion kit in my Bushmaster, S&W and BCM upper (CNMG lower) and have had no issues with reliability other than the occaisonal FTF that is common with Walmart bulk ammo. I got the stainless steel kit from CDNN for about $160 last year and they had a deal that included 2 mags.
I consider this more of a fun thing than a serious .22lr. I have Ruger 10/22's for more serious (?) 22lr plinking. I do like knowing that I can afford to shoot my AR's though even if ammo gets pricier or more scarce.
I will admit that the SHTF thing was a consideration too since the training is so much cheaper with the .22lr kit than it would be with .223/5.56mm. It would be a lot harder to get someone competent in gun handling post SHTF when ammo sales are banned such as they were during the LA Riots or Katrina.
I saw a guy at the range last year trying to run his CNMG kit (blued) in a Colt. No luck. I tried it in my Bushmaster and had the same problem....constant FTF with several brands of .22lr.
I rolled the dice when buying my kit and am very satisfied. CNMG has an upgraded version in which the bolt locks open. Mine doesn't. I haven't heard anything about the newer version in regards to reliablity.
I've also heard that CNMG's competition for these kits can be kind of hard to deal with if you need customer service. I won't name names as it's all internet talk.
Anyway, I thought I'd throw out the AR view since you have the option of shooting 2 different calibers with a $160-$200 investmentin a conversion kit, it takes up almost no room, it allows you to cheaply shoot AR's indoors and you can cheaply get new shooters started on AR training.

 

[Patriotme]

When I think SHTF I think about the people that had to defend themselves during Katrina and those business owners that were defending themselves and their shops during the LA Riots. I can also see fleeing town after a chemical factory fire or power plant melt down. We've seen both happen in the US and Japan over the last year.
I think self defense would be a more likely use than trying to live off of the land with a rifle in 2011.
Just my opinion.

 

[goon]

Do you live in a location where you could leave the M1A at home with the folks in the country (where you would presumably run to) and keep the Mini-14 with you. I think a reliable Mini, especially with a folder, would be a pretty good "low profile" gun to keep with you for more firepower if you needed to defend yourself. For closer range defense I think it would work great and hit hard enough with the right ammo, or even with just XM193.

If you do find yourself on foot, how are you going to keep a full size rifle like the M1A out of sight? Does it break down small enough that you could put it in a large pack? If so, and you can reassemble it fairly quickly once you get dug in, keep it.
But if it is going to be visible, it might make you a target for paranoid do-gooder law enforcement types, or for criminals wanting to ambush you and arm themselves, or for those who need a "savior" and figure the guy with the big scary looking gun is what they need. I'd rather avoid all of the above. IMO, out of sight until actually really needed is better.
So make a good handgun your first priority if you don't already have one, then decide how you're going to carry and employ this rifle. If you can live with it being broken down and reassembled when you rest for a long period, there are lots of options - FAL, SKS, full stocked AR's, and maybe the M1A. If it needs to be ready to use immediately, maybe something like an AK with a folder, folder equipped Mini-14, or an AR carbine with collapsible stock is the choice.

 

[Patriotme]

Let us know what you decide. It seems many are curious about the topic. It's great that it's stayed open so long. Perhaps after all of the fires, flooding, riots, evacuations and hurricanes of the last year or two, SHTF topics are more relevent as it's becoming more obvious that people may have to take care of themselves during an emergency.
I believe you need to add more mags to your kit no matter which weapon you go with.

 

[Ignition Override]

If none of your family members need a pharmaceutical to survive, then you would only have moderate problems, if compared to a large number of families.

My wife can't make it too many days without insulin. The caliber or type of gun would never be a solution, unless it could allow me to procure the vital drug, but drugstores and gun shops would be ransacked during anarchy.

If the OP never faces a similar problem in the distant future, then the most portable, concealable carbine (in a car or under a coat) might be best.
Easily carried on a sling when riding a bike in the dark in a small town/rural area?

 

[Point4orLarger]

You'll only go until your food / ammo run out.

Implying that you may make food out of some other mammals. So to extend your life-span, how much water, food, ammo can you tote while carrying the M1A? And how much while you're carrying the .223? Five pounds of .308 rounds converts to how many rounds of .223? "IF" you know which ways you may be bailing out, go there soon and bury MRE/H2O/Ammo caches. Maybe even cache a weapon, in case you get yours "confiscated." Make your options now, and not be forced into the options of a zombie-force later. I'll be carrying on 1-point sling a DPMS Panther in .762 x .51, while my hip and pack will hold a KelTek 9mm and Marlin Camp Folder in 9mm, having compatible magazines. "Good survival" to you. Let's all be ready when the Militia begins to be labeled as "Guerillas."

 

[christcorp]

Again; SHTF and Survival are 2 different things. If you're trying to survive, because of societal break down, and you're using a .223/308/7mm/30-06 etc... to get food, then you don't know the first thing about surviving. True survival, and needing to hunt food, will not require anything more than a 22LR rifle. And for what it's worth, you can carry a box of 500 rounds, and it doesn't weight anything.

Now; SHTF, Katrina, protecting your home/property, etc... that's a different scenario. You can debate .223 vs 308 vs hand gun etc... all you want. But anyone who thinks they are going to "Live off the land", because of societal break down, and they're going to do it with a .223/308 or any other high power rifle, really has been watching too many rambo type movies.

 

[shiftyer1]

jframe....you could find .25acp? All I could find on a regular basis was 12 ga birdshot.

I think the op stated he also had other rifles so this boils down to which do I like more. Choose the one you shoot the best and which you can buy or make the most ammo for. Also the most dependable.

 

[fragout]

Goon :

The OP states he has an M1A Socom.

OAL = 37 inches.

Weight can vary between 8.8 to 8.2 lbs, depending on actual weight of the stock an individual M14/M1A is sporting. A loaded 20rd mag weighs out at 1.5lbs.

If one were so inclined, this type of rifle can be disassembled further to stuff into smaller holes if needed.

11B

 

[fragout]

Christcorp :

I dont buy into your philosophy.

While I'm sure that a "true" survivor could live off the land without any type of firearm what so ever, then why bother with a 22LR?.......

2 legged critters out looking for something to eat because they did not prepare beforehand would be a number one reason as to why it might be nice to have something more. I realize that some folks here only require a toothpick to dispatch a mob of starving fools armed with AR's and AK's.........but I'm just not that good I suppose.

He is not stating that he will be living off the land regardless. The dude has a vehicle with limited space, and he cant take his entire collection with him, so he wants to sell a few of them off, and he must not be able to store them at his bug out destination either.

Unfortunately, he didnt state what those other guns were exactly. " Scoped hunting rifles and a shotgun".

Theses scoped rifles could be sold off along with the shotgun instead of selling off the Socom or the Mini. ( I would keep a rifle chambered in 22lr however, or pick one up, as they dont cost all that much compared to a Mini or Socom.)

This gives him and his gf/wife a decent defensive weapon, plus a 22lr. If possible, add a few/keep a few handguns for up close personal defense, and as a back up to the rifles.

Have a plan, and do not bug out at the last minute. Folks seem to picture a bugout from a city as a mad max kinda thing with clogged up freeways with folks shooting each other over a box of cornflakes.Government checkpoints are everywhere, and they are confiscating any and all firearms...etc etc... Use common sense, and bug out to your destination prior to anything like this happening, if this is a concern.

11B