Which Powder ?

[Hummbird]

Is there any diffrence to worry about between IMR Powder and Hodgdon say 4895 or 4350. Sometimes my local gun shop may not have one or the other. Im loading 30/06 165 grain hornady. Im not talking about mixing them i just want to know if one brand is just as good as the other. I hope i ask the question so you can understand me. Thank you

 

[Walkalong]

Are both brands good powder? Yes. Can they use the same data? No. Do folks often prefer one over the other (H vs I)? Yes. Do some folks not care if they get H-4895 or IMR-4895? Yes.

They do not use the same data though, regardless of the numbers being the same.

 

[brasscollector]

I would say that if you found a combo (ie 165gr, 30-06 using IMR 4350) and could only come across the equivalent (H4350) that you would more than likely find a usable load. Of course I would work it back up from a starting load.

 

[dgod]

Both are prolly Great Powders, i Personally use IMR. Also, if you plan to hunt with it, I would stay at or above 150gr Bullets for anything 4 legged. I have had really good luck with the 4350, 4064, and 3031. I am equally sure the Hodgdon would work as well.

Good Luck in your endeavors
Dan

 

[Slamfire]

Is there any diffrence to worry about between IMR Powder and Hodgdon say 4895 or 4350. Sometimes my local gun shop may not have one or the other. Im loading 30/06 165 grain hornady. Im not talking about mixing them i just want to know if one brand is just as good as the other. I hope i ask the question so you can understand me. Thank you

One brand is as good as another. Supposedly Hodgdon powder are "extreme" powders and have a special coating that reduces pressure. I have pierced primers with Hodgdon powders just the same as any other powder, so whatever pressure reducing advantage they have, I don't have the equipment to tell the difference.

All of the powders we buy over the counter have been blended. The industry standard is plus or minus 10% (so I was told by Accurate Arms) based on a charge weight for pressure curve. The brands we buy are sourced from various vendors. The "quality" of these powders all depends on the QC at the powder manufacturer. Since I don't have any insight into powder manufacturing QC I don't know what product characteristics they control. After using all the brands, I have found little to no difference in group size on target. If you develop a load with a particular manufacturer's powder, it will shoot well. However, don't be surprised if the next lot of that brand is a little different.

I do prefer short cut powders, the short cut 4350 powders came out after I bought kegs of the long cut 4350. Short cut powders throw better which is an important consideration if you use a progressive press. Long grained 4350 throws a grain and half or more out of my Dillion powder horn, so I end up weighing 4350. This is a bother. I can throw any of the 4895 series and that varies around a half grain.

Advertising is very clever, there are people who pay a premium for water in a green bottle versus a clear bottle. Consumers pay 100 times more for bottled water than for tap water. The difference between tap and bottled water is primarily advertising. The humorous thing, there are more standards regulating tap water in Europe and the United States than those applied to the bottled water industry."

In my experience, when it comes to gunpowder brands, buy by price.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I think that being able to work up a good load, having a powder meter well, cost, load data, and availability play a role in determining what powders people prefer as brand seems to have little factor in quality.

When I started loading the last, availability was the most important. Basically nothing was available and it was the worst time to get into the sport/hobby. So I didn't do much experimenting. I simply bought a few pounds of powders that would work for the calibers I load.

As powders became available I have slowly started to try different powders. For instance during the shortage I could get Accurate 9. I worked up a load and used it even though when I was getting my gear a friend gave me some Win 231 that I used for my first loads. I actually like the 231 a lot better but it was impossible to get.

Now that other powders are available, I've been able to try things. For instance, I wanted an accurate but softer shooting load, so saw lots of comments on BE86. I was able to get a pound and work up loads. I really like the BE86.

So both 231/HP38 and BE86 are powders I like. Accurate 9 not so much.

I will say though that I'm totally lost as to what to try for 223. I have H335 and it seems like it's a good all around powder. But it's not great for anything. I see lots of options and each have their fans. So I'll probably wait until I finish the AR I'm putting together then try stuff for it.

Anyway, I guess the good is we are back to having options, the bad is picking a few that we like then building a supply for the next crisis.

 

[pert near]

Although not overly applicable to the OP's .30-06 loads, its also worth mentioning two powders with suffixes in this discussion. These are H4831 vs H4831SC & IMR7828 vs IMR7828SSC. The "SC" means short cut & "SSC" means super-short cut. Each powder pair has the same burning rate & recommended load data is SUPPOSE to be the same. But as always in reloading, cut-back & work-up with any load change if switching. The shorter cut is for the sake of easier metering through a powder measure & making it easier loading large, bulky charges in a cases.

FWIW...

 

[cfullgraf]

Is there any diffrence to worry about between IMR Powder and Hodgdon say 4895 or 4350. Sometimes my local gun shop may not have one or the other.

As said, these powders have different loading data.

If you are worried about powders being out of stock, you could buy some of each and work up loads for each powder that you are planning to use.

As an example, I prefer H4895 for my M1 Garand, but I have a load worked up using IMR4895 as an alternate. And, yes, with the same bullet, the loads are different but yield the same velocities.

 

[Blue68f100]

You should always have loads worked up using different powders/bullets. You will never know when a shortage will hit one plant ( fire, explosion) and it will be down for over a year. A lot of times in the process you find a more accurate combo that what you had your mine made up on.

 

[hdwhit]

Hummbird wrote:
Is there any diffrence to worry about between IMR Powder and Hodgdon say 4895 or 4350.

They may have the same number, but they are not the same powder, so, yes, there enough of a difference to worry about.

For example, if you consult the Hodgdon website (http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle) you will see that for 30-06 with a 165 grain bullet, the maximum load of H-4350 is 59 grains while the maximum load of IMR-4350 is 60 grains with very different pressures (even correcting for the difference between CUP and PSI)

 

[hdwhit]

Hokie_PhD wrote:
I will say though that I'm totally lost as to what to try for 223...

I have had good luck with IMR-4198, IMR-3031, IMR-4064 and Winchester 748. I have also been told by so many people I trust that Benchmark is a wonderful 223 powder that I bought 5 pounds of it without having tried it out beforehand.

My "standard" load for 223 is 20.3 grains of IMR-4198 under a 60 grain Hornady spire point bullet. Since IMR-4198 is fairly fast for a rifle powder, I get good velocities out my 18 inch Mini-14 and 16 inch AR barrels and terminal performance equal to what my friends were getting out of their 20 inch ARs with 55 grain bullets.

Note that 20.3 grains of IMR-4198 was below maximum for IMR-4198 per Hornady Manual #4 which was the latest edition that the time I developed the load. It is above maximum load per later editions of the Hornady Manual and I would urge anyone developing a similar load today to abide by publishes sources. Personally, I loaded 2,000 rounds with 20.3 grains of IMR-4198 in the early 1980's, between my father and I we have shot approximately 1,300 rounds of it with no problems so I do not intend to disassemble the remaining 700 rounds. This is a personal choice I make in full knowledge of the potential risks and I do plan to abide by more recent publications for all newly assembled ammunition I create.

 

[Sunray]

"...between IMR Powder and Hodgdon..." Slightly different burn rates. Their data is not interchangeable.
"...one brand is just as good as the other..." Absolutely. Hodgdon sells 'em both anyway.
"...maximum load of IMR-4350 is 60 grains..." And compressed. Means the volume of the IMR is higher. Doesn't matter though.
"...difference between CUP and PSI..." Only difference is how the numbers are obtained. There is no such thing as mathematically converting 'em either. Kind of stupid for Hodgdon to be using both.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

As you see, both labels of powders are very close in performance but not identical. H4895 is a hair faster than IMR4895 and the reverse is true for 4350 with IMR4350 being a hair faster than H4350. If you have data for one or the other it is safe to use the middle of the data of either but the min/max can be show a difference of as much as a full grain on either end in a cartridge like the 30-06 w/180gr bullet. Of course you should always try to use published data but in a squeeze it's possible. You will see an even greater difference with lighter bullets.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

"...difference between CUP and PSI..." Only difference is how the numbers are obtained. There is no such thing as mathematically converting 'em either. Kind of stupid for Hodgdon to be using both.

I disagree, not stupid at all. Before Hodgdon took over distribution of IMR powders they had their own testing facility and used testing that produced data in PSI. Hodgdon tested with the copper crush method and produced datat in CUP. It would cost Hodgdon a small fortune to retest all the data that is now offered in CUP, a cost that would be passed on to us. There is no reason to waste money on retesting just to make everything the same, money that could be spent on R&D or newer manufacturing equipment.

If you look at the data for new cartridges like the 6.5 Grendel on the Hodgdon site you will notice all the data is represented in PSI because it's new data and gathered with the newer and more accurate method with Hodgdon/IMR/Winchester powders.

 

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Is there any diffrence to worry about between IMR Powder and Hodgdon say 4895 or 4350. Sometimes my local gun shop may not have one or the other. Im loading 30/06 165 grain hornady. Im not talking about mixing them i just want to know if one brand is just as good as the other. I hope i ask the question so you can understand me. Thank you

I would try both to see what your Rifle likes my T/C 30/06 likes IMR 4350 now my M1 Garand likes H 4895

 

[Jack B.]

Call or email Hodgdon they'll give you the answer to your question.