Which Pump action 12 gauge should I get

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You want a shotgun that balances between your hands. That is equal weight
on each hand when mounting the gun or carrying it.
A gun that handles like a 2x4 is useless.
By the way the rule of 96 is 96 times the shot charge for a feild gun.
So a 1 1/4 ounce field load would be used in a 7.5 pound gun
A 1 1/8 ounce load you would want a 6 3/4 to 7 pound gun.
 
I picked up one of those outmoded 2.75" Remington 870 wingmasters used.
I think the main reason why it came up for sale was spotty 2.75" ammo availability in village stores mainly stocking 3" and 3.5" 12 gauge and the guy traded up.
I bought it because Dad had a wingmaster, it is a coastal bush shotgun repleate with rust and wood scuffage.

Is it possible to put a 3" ejector in a 2.75" 870 (mid 1970's) and swap on a 3" aftermarket barrel (hastings)?
Or is it easier to buy a turn key Turkchester thats all set up to play?
 
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Used shotguns could be an option if you research some before buying.
No need buy a Kessler if Steel shot will take out the lead only choke.
 
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Speaking of Turkish guns...
I never would have made a blanket recommendation for the Benelli Nova/Supernova while the aftermarket barrel options were only Benelli factory, and cost as much as the gun.
But now there exist Turkish aftermarket barrel options for the same price as 870 aftermarket barrels. And the Supernova itself is in the same durability/reliability class as the 590A1 and BPS. It's an under-appreciated tank of a pump.
 
I Turkey hunted with a nova once the forend was so noisey I took it back. Never had any other pump gun that noisey.
 
entropy said:
I like eating them still, but hunting them is just an exercise in frustration.
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It sure can be frustrating and having to use non-toxic shot is the least of the hassles. Even after investing in a boat, decoys, calls, waders, inclement weather garb, a heater and, for most of us, a dog; you still have to pay for federal and state stamps in addition to your hunting license. The worst thing for many of us is finding access to areas to hunt for less and less ducks (and you better be sure which is which when you drop the hammer on your plugged gun :uhoh:).

After all that whining, waterfowl is still my favorite kind of hunting. I started hunting ducks and geese in the late fifties and still do so whenever I get the ever diminishing chance. Due to limited waterfowl hunting access mostly, most of my hunting now is for upland game, chiefly for grouse and woodcock and sometimes pheasants.
 
I have both the Mossy 500 & 870 Wing master. I like them both. the Wing master is a smoother action and much better overall finish
 
I too did not have a quality pump in my collection of guns. Being a Remington fan I had been on the lookout for a 870 Wingmaster. Ran across one in very good shape - a 12 gauge magnum version with vented rib barrel from the early 70s for about $500 and bought it. Have not shot it yet. Looks a lot like my older 1100s. Granddaughter does like her Benelli that she picked out for me to get her for Christmas a couple of years ago.. So, while I have not shot it yet, I vote for the 870 just because of looks and reputation.
 
Rex in OTZ said:
I picked up one of those outmoded 2.75" Remington 870 wingmasters used.
I think the main reason why it came up for sale was spotty 2.75" ammo availability in village stores mainly stocking 3" and 3.5" 12 gauge and the guy traded up.
I bought it because Dad had a wingmaster, it is a coastal bush shotgun repleate with rust and wood scuffage.

Is it possible to put a 3" ejector in a 2.75" 870 (mid 1970's) and swap on a 3" aftermarket barrel (hastings)?
Or is it easier to buy a turn key Turkchester thats all set up to play?
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No. Well, yes it's possible, but it requires that the receiver be refinished.
 
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Went the academy today to take a look at the pumps (also picket up scope rings and a scope for my 10/22). I really like the Mossberg 590, the Winchester compact didn't feel bad either. Still haven't decided what do get yet and still needed to go out and about to look around for a browning or maybe grandpa's vintage birdgun that wasn't appreciated by the grandkids.


Thanks everyone for the advice. It goes without saying that I'll be making a post about it soon.
 
Pistolpositive said:
Being a Remington fan I had been on the lookout for a 870 Wingmaster.
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I would argue that the best pump shotgun Remington ever made was the Model 31. Ultra-slick action, quality materials and peerless workmanship and finish, made it a gun to be reckoned with yesterday and today. Finding one in good condition at an affordable price is getting harder to do and steel shot might pose a problem with the barrels of the era.
 
There's a good reason new Ithaca M37s are expensive. They are exceptionally well made. There is no aluminum or plastic on them. They are all forged steel. Even the trigger guard assembly is made of forged steel, not plastic like on new Remingtons and Mossbergs, and not aluminum like on BPSs. Additionally, their barrels are forged. The vent rib posts, the wedge on top of the barrel in the front of the vent rib, the lug underneath the barrel where the magazine tube tightens, the sling stud lug (on Deerslayer barrels), are all part of the barrel. The barrel and all those protuberances are all forged and machined out of one piece of steel. They aren't soldered on. New Ithaca barrels, IMO, are the best shotgun barrels on the market today. They are meticulously made.

I like the BPS, and I currently have one and have owned four. But in terms of build quality, the Ithaca is superior. When you cycle a brand new Ithaca and a brand new BPS side by side, you will immediately notice the Ithaca cycles like a gun you've owned and used for 50 years. In comparison, the BPS is tight and a little gritty and feels like it needs to be broken in.

There are plenty of good, reliable pump shotguns on the market. But the new Ithacas are, IMO, well above them all. I have owned several Ithacas, and currently have three. One a 1975-made gun and the others new production Ithacas. The new guns are the best made of them all, IMO.

There may be some retailers out there that stock new Ithacas, but I don't know who they are. AFAIK, you have to order directly from Ithaca and they ship to your local FFL. And new Ithacas aren't always available. I understand they are made seasonally, and they go fast.
 
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Being a gunsmith, I look at guns from a little different perspective than most shooters. There are only two pump shotguns that I would recommend and those are the Rem 870 and the Mossberg 500. I would lean heavily on the 870. First reason is that at some point all working guns require repair. The parts availability for the rem or mossberg is much greater than any of the other brands. Parts for most of the foreign made, especially Turkish, guns are practically non existent. Same goes for older guns that have been out of production for many years. Second, the accessory market i.e. barrels, mag extensions, stocks, etc for the 870 is great. Pretty good for mossberg as well.
 
Micro, I do not dispute anything you posted but what you didn’t mention is a new Ithica runs anywhere from $1100 to $2100 . Quality costs money I agree. But at those prices most hunters simply can not afford that kind of quality.
 
The cost is what keeps me from going straight for the model 37. I still want to gets shells for it when I buy the pump.
 
Mullo98 said:
The cost is what keeps me from going straight for the model 37. I still want to gets shells for it when I buy the pump.
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Find a used one. They are running in the $4-500 range in my area, and the only difference is the rib and sling swivel are not machined into the barrel itself.

The old gunsmith said:
Being a gunsmith, I look at guns from a little different perspective than most shooters. There are only two pump shotguns that I would recommend and those are the Rem 870 and the Mossberg 500. I would lean heavily on the 870. First reason is that at some point all working guns require repair. The parts availability for the rem or mossberg is much greater than any of the other brands. Parts for most of the foreign made, especially Turkish, guns are practically non existent. Same goes for older guns that have been out of production for many years. Second, the accessory market i.e. barrels, mag extensions, stocks, etc for the 870 is great. Pretty good for mossberg as well.
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Sage advice, though I add the caveat on 870 Expesses and even the Wingmasters made shortly before 'the fall' of Remington. I do like the Ithaca 37, which is what my current HD shotgun is, and the BPS, which though heavy, is a solid performer in the field, particularly in nasty weather.

SwampWolf said:
I would argue that the best pump shotgun Remington ever made was the Model 31. Ultra-slick action, quality materials and peerless workmanship and finish, made it a gun to be reckoned with yesterday and today. Finding one in good condition at an affordable price is getting harder to do and steel shot might pose a problem with the barrels of the era.
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Hey, it worked well for Vic Reinders. Hard to beat that endorsement!
 
Ithacas have been built by at least 3 companies, and all seem to be decent guns. The 20 ga M37 I picked up for $220 a few years back had seen plenty of action, and had an adjustable choke attached. I have enjoyed carrying and shooting it a great deal, and recommend it highly if you find a nice used model. I enjoyed old 870s purchased new and used, and I picked up a Maverick 88 recently, but the 37 is my favorite.
 
I wanted an 870 but couldn't find one for what I was willing to pay. So i bought an 88 for 200 bucks and it fits my needs. I then purchased a semi auto to try my hand at Trap
 
SwampWolf said:
I would argue that the best pump shotgun Remington ever made was the Model 31. Ultra-slick action, quality materials and peerless workmanship and finish, made it a gun to be reckoned with yesterday and today. Finding one in good condition at an affordable price is getting harder to do and steel shot might pose a problem with the barrels of the era.
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​
US fielded shotguns during WWII the main ones were the Winchester models 1897 and 12, the Ithaca M37, Browning Auto 5 and......... the Remington model 31?

What on earth is a Remington model 31?
I'd never seen one, well Wikipedia shure was helpfull (no picture) of the John Pederson/CC Loomis designed model 31
what was interesting in the Wiki bio was the very last part.
{The Remington Model 31 was later used as a basis for the modernized and simplified Mossberg 500, 590, 835 and Maverick 88 shotguns. The biggest differences being the use of aluminum alloy receivers in most variants.}

Remington Model 31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When commercial firearms production resumed after World War II, Remington officials discovered that all the various models of rifles and shotguns the company had been producing in the past had become extremely expensive to manufacture. One of those was the Model 31, a slide-action shotgun many shooters believed to be superior in a number of ways to Winchester’s Model 12. But its many precision-machined parts and the handfitting required of same made the gun costly to build. Realizing the days of handbuilt, moderately priced firearms were numbered, the push was on to come up with a replacement for the Model 31, one with components that could be built entirely on high-speed production machinery and then assembled by semi-skilled hands.

In 1949, only 18 years after its production, the Model 31 was discontinued with close to 190,000 built; a year later its replacement, the Model 870, was introduced.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-pump-the-forefather-of-the-mossberg.777032/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/..._forefather_of_the_Mossberg_/1-443580/?page=1

The Remington model 17 was based on a John M. Browning Patent No. 1,143,170
granted June 15, 1915. However, Remington was gearing up for WW-I at that time and it would be six more years before the gun came out. Remington's designer John D. Pedersen made design refinements in 1919 (applications filed Sept. 15, 1919, Patent No. 1,429,621 granted Sept. 19, 1922 and Patent No. 1,487,799 granted Mar. 25, 1924) and G.H. Garrison made further improvements. It was the patents on these improvements that forced Ithaca to wait until 1937 to bring out their copy of this gun, though Ithaca had actually built some guns by 1932. Actually Pedersen has so many patent applications filed in that 1919 time frame it is hard to tell which really apply!
 
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I like the Benelli Super Nova. Very good guns. But...

They are big, heavy guns. The receiver is much longer and much thicker than just about anything else out there. It is way bulky. The fore end is bulky, too. And it rattles like crazy.

They're reliable. But just be aware that they arfe very much oversized compared to other pumps.
 
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