Which Rifle/Caliber

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

RancidSumo

Member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
1,168
Location
Green River, WY
It will be a while untill I get another rifle since I just bought my M1 and I and I don't make a lot of money during the school year but I want to get started planing now. That is what I did when I bought my first rifle this year and it payed off. Anyway, I want a mid range rifle for target and varmit use. I don't know how far the practicle ranges of the rounds I am looking at are but I am leaning thinking about getting either a .223, 22-250 or .204 Ruger. It is my understanding that the 22-250 is better at longer ranges, is that correct? I plan on putting a high power, probably fixed, Leupold scope on it (25x competition is what I am thinking right now). So, the current rifles I am looking at are the Remington 700 w/ thumbhole stock, the Remington XR100 Rangemaster, or a Savage M25 Thumbhole stock. Which of these rifles would be best? Which caliber could I get the most performance out of at ~300yds? I will be handloading for them if that makes a difference. Obviouisly I am new to this so I am open to other calibers and guns.

ETA: I have been thinking about three other calibers as well but didn't think they were suited for my purposes as well as these others so I originally left them out but I could and have often been wrong so I'll throw them out there; .221 Fireball, 17 Fireball, 22 Hornet.
 
I have a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .223 Rem, with a 36X BSA. I use a 20 MOA off set base, and QR rings. It's accurate to 0.182" at 100 yards (benched) and was inexpensive. I could have spent more, but doubt I would have gotten more for the added funds. Good luck; the planning is 49% of the fun.

Doc2005
 
If you're going to be handloading and you live in Wyoming, (which I presume has lots of wide open spaces), you may as well go with a .22-250. It's faster and flatter shooting and as long as you roll your own there's not much difference in the price of ammo.
 
RS:

You read it correct. This rifle is abnormally tight...zero play in the bolt in any direction. Even with no round in the chamber, it is very tight. When I chamber a round, I literally have to force the bolt closed. I have been examining other SPS Varmints that are on the gun store shelves, and few of them seem to be as-tight-as mine. My groups are in the 0.182" (sub-1/5th inch center-to-center). My suggestion is to examine as many rifles as it takes to locate one that has a tight bolt with absolutely zero play. Another significant issue is the receiver to scope base/rings fit. I mount my scope bases with expoxy between rail base and the receiver, the and TocTite in the threads. I then have the gunsmith mount the scope with red LokTite.

Doc2005
 
It is my understanding that the 22-250 is better at longer ranges, is that correct?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think so.

Depending on the averge range you're shooting at though you may not need that extra range though.

It just depends on what the average distance that you're shooting at.

If you live in a region of the country that's particularly flat (Texas, Oklahoma and the Plains States) then pick the 22-250. If you're shooting in landscape that's a little more broken up (with trees, brush, large rocks and rolling hills) then the .223 Rem will probably do fine.

The truth is decent ammo for both is about the same price. People always talk about how ammo for the .223 Rem is alot less in price, but you probably aren't going to be shooting military surplus ammo out of your varmint rifle and trying to actually get much accuracy out of it. You'll have to pay out for decent ammo and that means that they're about the same price ammo wise.
 
You ask some good, tough, often-asked questions. In fact, there have been many threads on .22-250, .223 rem, or .204 ruger. They will all 3 serve well, but if you do a search, you'll get a LOT of input on that. My own choice after that dilemma was .223 Rem, but there's no wrong choice. Arguably, the .204 is the goldilocks caliber in terms of ballistics & recoil, but at higher cost.

On Rifles, you've got a really good short list. I came very close to getting a Savage 25 until I ended up grabbing the Vanguard sub-MOA varmint instead. The Savage is of course the most economical choice, and will likely perform as good as any. The XR100 rangemaster is an outstanding rifle as well, and more "proven" than the Savage, perhaps.
 
You might also consider the .243 Winchester. It's a very versatile cartridge that's good for varmints with a 55gr. bullet all the way up to deer with a 100gr. bullet.
 
I agree with Water-Man. 243s are much more versatile than 22s. It is a legal deer caliber in every state. No so with 22s.

However, if you don't reload, nothing will come close to the ammo cost advantage of 223. 223 is fine out to 300 yards. Beyond that, the 22-250 is better.

By better, I mean flatter trajectory. If you are willing to memorize the trajectory and are only shooting varmints & paper, 223 will be fine.

Whichever you end up with, you won't get top accuracy unless you reload.
 
When I was buying my P-dog gun last year, I wanted a savage mod 12 LRPV in 223 but could only find a used one in 22-250, so I compromised and got it. I figure a 22-250 load with the same bullet is getting somewhere around 500+ fps over a 223 load. The benefit being reduced drop and windage compared to 223, along with more energy (which is worthwhile on P-dogs). Some say that beyond 400 yards 22-250 starts to shine over 223, but to really be able to tell you'd have to shoot them side by side. Either way you'd have a good setup for varmints, and with the 22-250 you'd have a good setup for varmints and deer sized game.

I don't know much about the 204, but I do know that you can not reload to factory velocities because they haven't released the powder they use.
 
I'll apologize upfront for the weak post.

I have those calibers except for the 22-250. The reason - I HEARD that because it is so fast, it's a barrel burner. Is there any truth to that?

As far as the 223 goes . . . it's so unimpressive in every regard except one . . . it's impressive in every regard. Yeah there are rounds out there that will do individual things better, but then they fall short in other regards. 223 is better than good at everything.

223 is cheap, accurate, flat, and components for reloading are easily found. Almost all of the shooting matches at our range are won with 223. It may not be the great thing on the market right now, but it's been at the forefront since it's inception for the reasons listed above . . . and I'm sure more.
 
I'd get a Savage Model 12 in 223, with a 1-7 twist barrel. Then you can handload 75 and 80g A-Maxs, and 80g Berger VLDs. Farthest I've shot mine is 600 yards, but it did very well. I don't like the Savage Model 25 because the barrel is pinned,and I get bored and change barrels fairly often.
 
Hey rancid, I too am in college. I had the same problem and the way I fixed it was with a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in 308. They make them in the calibers you wanted and around the 500 mark. To give you some stats, I just got around to handloading some bullets for it and I got a 3 shot group at .365 at 100 yards. Im going to try a few other things and see what I can do to that but for out of the box accuracy you cant beat that. Oh and I got it on layaway from impactguns.com where I could pay on it little by little.
 
If you already have a .243 "hunter", then you have the dies for that caliber, so why not get an accurate .243?

Ruger makes a M77VT with a stainless (gray) action, heavy free-floated barrel and a target trigger. It's offered in .243 as well as .22-250, but the .22-250 has a 1:14 twist for lighter bullets.

If you're going for long range, I suggest you look at twist rates.

Savage makes a "Model 12 Varminter Low Profile" that looks interesting, too. They offer a choice of twist rates in .22-250 (1:12 or 1:9), but .243 is offered only in 1:9.25.
 
So for long range 22-250, is the 1:9 better? Also, thanks for the reply but I am really not very interested in another .243. I like the round but I would just rather have another gun in another caliber.
 
I found a Hornady 75 gr A-Max, which looks like a match bullet for .22-250. I don't have a .22-250, so this is an educated guess. The BC is .435, which is pretty good.

AFAIK, a 1:9 twist should stabilize this better than a 1:14 twist. I'm familiar with twist rates for .243 bullets, and trying to "extend" this to .22-250, and I know they aren't the same.

I've heard of custom barrels with something like 1:8 twists for heavy bullets in .243. The one I have has a 1:9 twist and it does OK with 95 gr bullets. I have yet to try the 105 and heavier "match" bullets. They may tumble. It also does OK with 58 gr varmint bullets.

It is just marginally possible that a 1:9 twist might be too much for lighter bullets in .22-250 at extreme velocities. I've heard this can be a problem, but I'm not sure if it occurs with 55 gr varmint bullets at a 1:9 twist. With very thin varmint bullet construction, too much twist can make the bullets fly apart from centrifugal force.

Sorry for the inexact answers. Some varmint expert probably has this down cold for the .22-250.

Here's Lija's twist rate selection chart -

Twist rates
 
Under 300 yards, .223. Cheaper ammo, and bulk ammo, less wear and tear on rifle.

Over 300 yards, .204, .22-250, or .243. The more wind, the heavier the bullet, so the .243 is favored. These calibers have really flat trajectories, like 4-5inches of drop @ 300 yards with 200 yard zero.


.22-250 50gr
100 300 400 500
+0.8 -5.0 -15.6 -33.3

.223 50gr
100 300 400 500
+1.6 -7.8 -22.9 -51.7

www.gunsandammomag.com has a nice search engine to compare trajectories.
 
go with the .223 unless you plan on shooting past 350yd+/- the remington 700 and savage are good rifles, but what about an ar15 varminter? my ar (not even a varmint or match rifle) shoots 1/2in groups all the time. with wolf bulk pack at 200 i get 1.5 moa groups.

the .22-250 sends the bullet faster, but with more powder, recoil, adn muzzle blast. to shoot a 75gr a-max, i think the minimum is a 1:8 twist, with 1:7 being better.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
Choice of Caliber
Replies
15
Views
931
Nhsport
N
R
  • Locked
  • Poll
Which caliber?
Replies
11
Views
665
Hokkmike
Hokkmike
M
  • Locked
I need a caliber that equals the 204 ruger
2 3
Replies
57
Views
3K
Maverick223
Maverick223
X
  • Locked
Which 22-250? Or is there a better caliber?
Replies
23
Views
2K
DIM
D
S
  • Locked
Compare 22 Hornet, K-Hornet, & 221 Fireball
Replies
10
Views
5K
Sniper66
S
Back
Top