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Which state has the least intrusive requriements for non-resident CCL?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by henschman, Feb 7, 2011.

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  1. henschman

    henschman Member

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    Hello,

    you could say I am in the market for a concealed carry permit.

    Here's the deal: I am strongly against the whole notion of asking permission to exercise a natural right. However, I am considering submitting to the tyranny of getting a concealed carry license just to make my life a little easier and care-free. I have no problem with igonring laws that violate my liberty if I believe the benefit to be worth the risk, but unfortunately my profession (attorney) is highly regulated by the state, and even a misdemeanor concealed weapon conviction could potentially be a problem for me.

    I could get a license through my home state of Oklahoma, but I really detest some of the requirements, especially the requirement that I be fingerprinted. Having to ask permission to exercise the right is bad enough, but being treated like a criminal just for wanting to protect myself and my loved ones is outrageous. Also, the fees are somewhat high, and it takes quite a while for the license to actually be issued.

    So anyway, I am looking for the state that offers a non-resident permit with the least-intrusive requirements. Please post which state or states you believe holds this title.

    I could check every state's law one by one, but I thought you guys might be able to save me some trouble... if you give me several ideas, I can look them up and decide which I want to go with.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    PA's non-resident license is pretty easy to get, IIRC, but they do require you to hold a permit from your own state first, so that's out.

    One thing you'll find is that the more "intrusive" a state's permitting process, generally, the more other states recognize that permit. UT and FL are recognized by the most states, but they require fingerprinting and a training class.

    It is a little odd to seek out a license or permit based entirely on the permitting process, rather than, say, which states recognize that permit. Most folks look first to which states they need to be able to carry a gun in, regularly, and get whatever permits meet that goal.

    Are you just looking to have A carry permit, and want the easiest one you can get? Or do you want one that will let you carry in OK? (Will OK allow an OK resident to carry on a non-res permit from some other state? Most states don't.)
     
  3. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Arizona, Vermont and Alaska, allow CC with out paper with their states...

    That being said, as far as I know, every state requires you to be finger printed for the CCL, as part of the background check. And if one does issue with out such a 'extensive' back ground, you most likely won't be able to use it, as it won't be recognized in most other states, most states refuse to recognize a license that is less strict than their own requirements, I believe that is part of the reason WA had to revamp their process.
     
  4. archigos

    archigos Member

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    PA did not require that I be finger printed.
     
  5. LemmyCaution

    LemmyCaution Member

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    Yes, but VT has reciprocity with exactly zero states, since we don't require, nor do we offer a permit.
     
  6. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Not so. There are quite a few that don't. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=498126)

    Some are still recognized by many others. But, as you implied, the more restrictive a state's licensing procedures, the less likely it is to recognize permits from less restrictive states. PA, for example, does not require fingerprints, but is only recognized in ~26 states, whereas UT is recognized in more like ~34.

    Another issue is whether or not a state has a verification system whereby an LEO in X state can call up at 2:00 am to check the validity of someone's permit from state Y.
     
  7. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Thanks for making that clear sam,
    like I said, as far as I know
    Personally I don't see the problem, as, unless you have something to hide....
    but if you ever use your CCW, they are going on file anyways, and I'm a veteran, so I'm sure mine are already in the Fed database...
     
  8. harmon rabb

    harmon rabb Member

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    Didn't you have to get printed to be admitted to your state bar? I'm a florida attorney and I had to be printed for admittance to the florida bar.
     
  9. henschman

    henschman Member

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    Actually I do have something to hide -- it's called my privacy.

    Thanks for posting the link to that other thread, Sam. That was very helpful. In that thread, there was a list of states that do not require fingerprinting. I just went down the list and checked what the requirements are for a non-resident permit.

    Maine is looking pretty good... you can apply by mail for a non-resident permit for $60. They do not require fingerprints, though the form does have you agree that you will provide them in the event that it becomes necessary to verify your identity. It doesn't ask for your SSN or anything, which is nice. I just downloaded the application from here http://www.maine.gov/dps/msp/licenses/weapons_permits.html and filled it out. Pretty straightforward.

    Maine requires you to take a handgun safety course within the past 5 years that is recognized either by the issuing authority, or by the state in which it was taken. The law states that a completion certificate is satisfactory proof of this. I found a free online handgun safety course from the State of Maryland that only takes about 30 minutes and issues you a certificate when you're done: http://www.mdgunsafety.com/ It ought to fit the bill. I am taking it now, and it is really easy stuff.

    Man, this is a lot easier than getting an Oklahoma concealed carry license. I can do it all sitting here at my computer! For an Oklahoma CCL, you have to go to a CLEET-certified course that costs $60 and takes a whole Saturday, and involves a written test and live firing. Then you have to go to the Sheriff's office and get printed and photographed (which costs $25). Then you have to fill out an application and pay the state $100, and then in 6 months if you're lucky, they will send you a letter saying you can go pick up your license. To hell with all that -- my money is going to a slightly more free state.

    The nice thing is that Oklahoma recognizes all other states' concealed carry licenses, even those with less oppressive requirements (including ME, according to handgunlaw.us). They also do not have any law requring Oklahoma residents to get an Oklahoma license in order to carry -- another state's license will do just fine.

    Well, I won't say I'm happy to have to be getting permission from any government to exercise my liberty, but I have to say that this is a lot easier than I thought it would be. I don't know why all Okies don't do it this way.

    Oklahoma, you can take your license and fingerprints and SHOVE IT!!! :D
     
  10. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Just remember that if you every get put in the back of the patrol in handcuff while the 'verify' your CCL...
     
  11. billybob44

    billybob44 Member

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    Lifetime LTCH

    It's not as easy as the OP's choice, but here in Indiana, I have a LIFETIME License To Carry Handgun permit. Other than the no permit required states I think this comes in a close second..Bill.:neener:
     
  12. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    henschman,

    Can I ask how you plan to get around the 1000' Gun Free School Zone law which is 18 USC 922 (q)? Or is that going to be one of those pesky, "I have no problem with igonring laws that violate my liberty if I believe the benefit to be worth the risk"?

    Note the ATF's position:

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf

     
  13. wildbilll

    wildbilll Member

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    Could probably deal with the latest version of the GFSZ act the same way everyone does that carries a gun without a permit in OK.
     
  14. dogrunner

    dogrunner Member

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    I dunno what your hang up with the print issue is, after all you DID have to submit a set to secure bar admission I'm sure. Regardless, the privacy matter is pretty much a non issue in several must issue jurisdictions. Florida for example has forbidden the release of ccw info for other than LE purposes........something that happened after some odious 'freedom of the press' types abused the hell out of their prerogatives.

    Theoretically and philosophically I agree with you.........practically, you are right........get that unconstitutional piece of gov't mandated 'stay out of jail' card. Still, I think you are kinda short changing yourself, especially relative to the reciprocity issue with minimally recognized state such as Maine.......your call tho.

    Just as an aside, relative to the privacy issue, I well recall being mandated by my city's commission to conduct background checks on prospective non-LE hires. Couldn't by law use NCIC but kinda by accident fell into a background information program that utterly amazed me..........I swear I could tell you who your third ex wife's next door neighbor was........turned out that program was a really useful tool that exceeded the general capabilities of NCIC in several instances............bottom line is that ANYONE who labors under the impression that he/she can 'control' their privacy by avoiding ministerial inanities such as printing for a licensure matter is fooling themselves........badly!
     
  15. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Surely you must mean to stop before coming within 1000' of a school, unload the gun and lock it in a case? :neener:

    Can I send you a name and SSN in PM?!? I'd like to have that information! :D
     
  16. henschman

    henschman Member

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    What, you mean that law that was ruled unconstitutional back in 1995, over the government's commerce clause argument, and then reenacted the next year with token changes that basically quoted the government's argument that was rejected in the earlier SC case?

    I guess if I ever get pulled over by a fed within 1000 feet of a school, I'll start worrying about that one. I seriously doubt it would be upheld in Court anyway.

    It absolutely falls into the category of laws I will cheerfully break. The risk of getting caught for that one is not high enough for me to worry about.
     
  17. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    If you are a lawyer, then why don't you file a lawsuit to get it repealed? You could dispute the law based upon the fact that it nullifies the full faith and credit clause of the US Constitution. Seems like a more high road approach then simply admitting you are going to commit a federal felony, probably several times every day.
     
  18. henschman

    henschman Member

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    Yes, my government masters did indeed require my prints to give me permission to practice my chosen profession. I was under duress there... I didn't really have an alternative, if I wanted to work in the area that I chose. Plus it is a lot harder to get away with practicing law without a license than it is to carry a handgun without a license.

    Not wanting to get a CCL that requires this is more about the principle of the thing. If there is a way around it, I will take it.
     
  19. henschman

    henschman Member

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    I would have dubious standing unless I was actually charged under the law... I would have to claim that the law harms me by requiring me to take convoluted paths to my destinations, makes some desitnations unreachable, and requires me to look up every school zone in my planned path. It would be easy for a court to dodge this issue by denying standing. For a criminal statute, you generally have to be charged under it in order to have standing to challenge its constitutionality. It would be a lot of trouble and expense for a doubtful outcome.

    Now if someone actually was charged with that crime, I would represent them pro bono.
     
  20. billybob44

    billybob44 Member

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    No problem at all. You-in your field- should know more than most, the firearms possession charge(without a permit) is the first one to be thrown out on a plea deal...???
    Why make these laws, just to throw them out in order to get an easier guilty verdict??
     
  21. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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  22. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Hey Navy, I though the SC sent that one back, and found that the 'federal' goverment could enforce it on--- Federal Facilities, as it DOES NOT FALL UNDER THE COMMERCE CLAUSE.....

    SO, out out side of DC, Military bases etc. it has no force, unless the state has enacted a similar law.
     
  23. JellyJar

    JellyJar Member

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    Get over it and just get an Ok license. I have a Texas CHL and I had to be finger printed and such. Just be glad you don't live in some place like Illinois.
     
  24. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    The US Supreme Court declared the GFSZA of 1990 to be unconstitutional. In 1995 Congress passed a new GFSZA (the current one) that added a requirement for the prosecution to prove that the gun in question "has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce", thus bringing it (unconstitutionally, in my opinion) under the commerce clause again. The 1995 GFSZA has not been voided by the US Supreme Court, yet.

    All the prosecution has to prove is that the gun has ever affected interstate commerce. This could be anything from the ore used to forge the steel in the gun came from out of state.

    Heck in Wickard V. Filburn the US Supreme Court upheld a decision that said that a completely local item (in this case, wheat) could be regulated by the Federal Government under the commerce clause if that item even only caused competition in interstate commerce!
     
  25. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    If I recall, IN did away with the lifetime licenses after they tried it for a few years.

    If you have one, great. I don't think any new ones are being issued, though.
     
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