Who knows about Erl Svendsen guns?

[moewadle]

I was at a gun show today in Iowa and a man there had on display, not for sale, revolvers and derringers made by an Erl Svendsen. I actually thought one gun box spelled it Svensen but the internet finds it as Svendsen. Anyway, I told the man I would do some searching because I like to do research. He had skimpy information that E. S. lived in Chicago area and made guns in the 1960s and maybe to 1970s. This man at the show had said he found 3 addresses somehow that ES had used in Illinois and he had met some man who had purported to know ES and knew that he had refused to pay off the mob or something so left Chicago. Then I found through a browser search an entry by Harley Nolden on the FIRINGLINE website from in the past because he had been asked about a derringer made by this ES or something. Harley had found a man who claimed he had known ES in the Chicago area on Rte 53 doing with a business named Hunter's Haven, I guess in the Chicago area. Apparently ES named his company eventually ESFAC, Inc. and they did make some derringers. I did also find an entry from Guns America that someone had one of these derringers for sale at some point in time for $130 but when I went to GA with the item number it was out of date and sold. Same thing with Gun Broker. So, who out there knows more about Erl Svendsen, gunmaker. I will tell you that his man today had a .22 SAA type revolver with a gorgeous condition cardboard box in which it came. The revolver was called a Pony Express I believe. The address for the company had no zip code and was dated 1957 apparently. (Zip code mentioned here as a way of dating things. Zip codes not used until about 1962-63.) Also, had two or three other revolvers with no boxes but I did not ask the caliber and I think a display box of like a set of three derringers. So, WHO KNOWS MORE??? This man is really wanting to know more and said he had Googled ES and found nothing. Obviously, he did something wrong as I found out something. If you know of any articles in Gun Digest or other periodicals or if you have a firearm made by ES or know any little tiny thing please post it. Any help would be appreciated. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOU TIME AND KNOWLEDGE.

 

[moewadle]

Added information

this man developed a company named ESFAC that is listed a couple of years in the Gun Digest of 1975. The company became 4 Aces or something like that and made derringers. Hope this information will help scare up more information from one of you out there.

 

[Chance131]

Found this thread while looking for ES info. Picked up an Erl Svendsen .22 Pony Express, #B54x at a local pawn shop in Oct 07. Gun had been fired very little if at all and is like new (no box or papers). Took it to the range and put about 100 rds thru is and it is beautiful to shoot.

On the 5 1/2 in barrel is stamped Erl Svendsen Firearms Mfg Co Chicago 34. Ill U.S.A.. So manufacture is prior to the invention of zip codes.

Workmanship is top grade.

 

[bannockburn]

I remember seeing those derringers in gun mags many years ago. I found one of those ads in a Guns and Ammo mag from December, '73. It shows their Four Aces derringer, with their claim that it is the world's smallest 4 shot derringer. They also have a smaller photo inset which showed the three gun set of the Pocket Pony spur trigger revolver, the Four Aces derringer, and the Little Aces single shot derringer. They were listed as having Manganesed bronzed frames, blued steel barrels, and case hardened parts. Also, they were said to shoot .22 standard shorts. The company was ESFAC, Inc., P.O. Box 2061, Brownsville, TX 78520. Phone number was (512) 546-4572, 4573. The guns were touted as being an Ed Svendsen Classic Design.

 

[Ron James]

I can add but little, but I have been told that his guns are now a hot item and are collectible. I can't confirm that and this information is worth exactly what you paid for , Good Luck.

 

[Fleetugsailor]

Not much.

Hi,

I can't add any more info about the manufacturer than has already been posted but for those interested I've attached a pic of a derringer set that came into my possession a while back. FWIW.

Regards,
JDH
"Non sibi sed patriae"

***The Second Amendment is Not About Hunting***

 

[Georgegun]

Erl Svendsen guns

I have a "4-ACES" with ivory grips & it looks to have a silver wash on the frame . You just don't see these guns very often. I have found no history on Erl Svendsen . I could not get a photo to upload

 

[Johny Law]

Most of the imprinted information is almost worn off. I have attempted to search for information on this gun but there does not seem to be much available. I really would just like to know how rare it is and what's its value. I don't know if there is any other calibers but mine is .22 short. I have noticed that, probably because of age and weakening springs, sometimes it does not fire all four barrels. I don't know if all are the same but mine has a rotating pin on the hammer. I have found sometype of German ammunition which is shorter than regular .22 shorts, it has a pointed projectile, is marked with an acorn on the base, and has a higher setting primer which seems to help fire all four shots. Well thank you in advance for any info you might be willing to share. You can contact me at [email protected].

 

[[email protected]]

I have one

I have a Svendsven "Little Ace" single shot derringer. I bought it new in the 1960's. I didn't realise there was interest in them until I saw this thread. I've always thought of it more as a curiosity thas as a viable weapon.

 

[Chance131]

A few weeks ago I took my Erl Svendsen [photos above] to the Crossroads of the West Gun Show in PHX and actually found a vender who knew what it was. He deals in small guns and was familiar with the Little Ace and 4 Aceses but had never seen a Pony Express in person. Mine is #B540 and he suggested there probably weren't many more than that total and put a guesstamate value of about 900 bucks or so on it. I don't have any ideas of getting rid of the gun as it is just fun to have something very few people have ever seen. Besides that it is a good shooter although I haven't shot it for a while.

Am keeping an eye out for the derringers as they, along with the Pony Express, would make a fine collection.

 

[OregonCoast]

I'm really suprised that there isnt more imformation about Erl Svendsen. I can only find information about his guns. There seems to be little information in that area too. I'm trying to find out about his knife purchased in Brownsville, TX over 35 years ago. Well good luck with the search.

 

[luckydog1940]

I knew him

Hi, I found this thread and just signed up to this site.

I personally knew Earl from the 50's to the 70's.

he had a gun business just outside of Chicago in the late 50's and very early 60's then he moved to Itasca on route 53.. he dressed like a cowboy and looked like Buffalo Bill Cody right down to the long silver hair and beard.

he had a elderly lady who worked for him for many years. she did fantastic deep satin bluing and chrome and nickel plating.

I had her chrome plate a military 1911 45 auto, she even did the clip and barrel.
everyone that saw it wanted to buy it.

Earl had a complete machine shop and did much of the machine work there for the guns he made. he even did the lost wax for all the brass parts on any guns he made.

the pony express was the first one he designed and made in the late 50's, it was very limited production, but I don't know the exact numbers.

he made it in 22 cal and 38 spl. everything he made was very high quality and made with loving care.

these truely are very limited guns.

he made the little ace derringer first in around 1960, the barrel pivioted to the side to load it., he took orders on the first 100 by serial number I got #36.

he did sell quite a few of these as some members have seen the ads. I would estimate around 20,000.

his second project was the four aces derringer in around 1963 the barrels slide forward to load and the firing pin rotated 1/4 turn everytime you cocked the hammer. I also got serial #36 of this model.

he was working on the world's smallest revolver which was supposed to be a very small 5 shot 22. unfortunately I had moved out of the area and lost contact with him. so I don't know if it ever was released.

his shop in Itaska was a huge old building and he had stuffed animal heads skins and vintage western items all around the shop area.

he had a trap shooting range around the back outside.

he was a very friendly guy and loved talking guns and showing off his latest projects or buys.

I got some great deals from him back then, unfortunately when my son was born I sold my whole gun collection to a buddy. and he was killed in a car crash 5 years later and his brother got all his guns.

I never did find out when Earl passed away or what happened to all the great collectables he had. it truely was a great time in my life knowing and dealing with him.

 

[Injun]

In the mid 70's I purchased Ser NOs F4723 and F4724 with the boxes and paperwork. I called the man (Name eludes me at the moment) in Brownsville who made these great little derringers with the hopes of finding a place to buy more but was told he was forced by the Feds to stop production because of safety concerns. Seems that when you load new rounds in and close the barrel it will sometimes fires a round if you don't have it on half cock. Well, also seems there were several folks that closed the barrel with the palm of their hands creating a little unexpected air conditioning port. Oops.

I had a design change to overcome this and he gave me his blessings to make them using his patend. He seemed to be pretty well done with the 4 Aces manufacturing thing. I think he bought the rights from Mr Svendsen but could be a little fuzzy on that part.

Mine came with "pearl" grips which are actually kinda cheap plastic so I have a set of ivory and a set of wood ones I have made over the years. I am thinking about making a set of Stag grips for it now. I have of course saved the originals.

I don't know the value of these but a mached set of consecutive serial numbers should make the value go up some. If in fact I could ever bring my self to sell them. Also my son has always had his eyes on them.

Any info of value would be interesting to me if someone runs across the info.

 

[Clermont]

Early 1990's issues of the now defunct National Association of Derringer Collectors newletters, The Derringer Peanut, contain information on Erl Svendsen firearms. Dixie Gun Works' president, Turner Kirkland, remembers in the 1960s buying Little Ace derringers from Erl Svendsen for $7.50 each in lots of six and reselling them for $12.50 each. Erl told Turner that he employed women to assemble the derringers.
Information contributed by Harold A Murtz, Senior Staff Editor Of Gun Digest, was that ill health required Erl Svendsen to relocate from Itasca, Illinois to a better climate and he chose Brownsville, Texas, where he continued manufacturing handguns. In approximately 1974 Svendsen sold the manufacturing rights to his firearms to Lou Fagen, from Warwick, New Jersey, but Svendsen stayed on as a manufacturing consultant. Apparently, it was at this time the company name was changed to ESFAC(Erl Svendsen Fire Arms Company). Mr. Murtz recalls that ESFAC ceased to exist approximately a year, possibly less, later.
I'm not certain but I believe the Pocket Pony is an ESFAC product. Earliest Erl Svendsen guns were marked Norridge, Illinois, followed by Itasca, Illinois, and finally Brownsville, Texas. Earliest Little Ace derringers were said to only chamber CB and BB caps. Later Svendsen derringer were chambered for the standard velocity .22 cal. short cartridge.

 

[luckydog1940]

little ace

I think My little ace derringer and 4 aces derringer were both chambered in .22 cal. short.

both were serial number 36. here's some pics i found on the net!!

http://www.derringer.de/new155.htm

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/publ...onhams.com/&sPath=2005-05/18/7097147-63-1.jpg

thanks for the new info, at my age my mind gets a little foggy sometimes. I do remember his move to Texas now.

I would think his pony express production would be well under 1,000 each as he had a very small operation.

 

[div4gold]

This is my Little Ace, it's the .22 BB or .22 CB Cap. It's got a broken hammer spring. Anyone know where something like that could be found or fabricated?

 

[NCsmitty]

I remember seeing those ads in gun mags. years ago. From the looks of the pics, ES was a true craftsman.That "pony express" is beautiful.

NCsmitty

 

[div4gold]

Not much.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Hi,

I can't add any more info about the manufacturer than has already been posted but for those interested I've attached a pic of a derringer set that came into my possession a while back. FWIW.

Regards,
JDH
"Non sibi sed patriae"

***The Second Amendment is Not About Hunting***
Attached Thumbnails"

What is the revolver in your set called? Nice little collection.

 

[Fleetugsailor]

Revolver

Thanx for the compliment on my set. Sorry this reply took so long, I've been away. The revolver is marked Mod 1 along with it's ser# and Itasca, Illinois. The ser# starts with CS which I think means Cased Set and is the same for all 3 guns. BTW, the revolver is chambered in .22LR while the derringers are .22Short.

Regards,
JDH
"Non sibi sed patriae"

***The Second Amendment is Not About Hunting***

 

[Oldgunnut]

Just registered on this Forum and saw the question about Svendsen. I can give you some information since I used to live a few miles from his shop and purchased a .22 cal pistol from him when I was a teenager (my first gun purchase). Here is what I know.

Erl had a shop on Harlem Avenue in Norridge Illinois across from what was later to become the Harlem Irving Plaza.

He specialized in SAA type weapons and was into some fast draw clubs at the time, which were quite popular in the 50s. I believe I purchased my first gun from him around 1958-60. He did most of his own work on the guns. They have brass frames and the rest were steel, with black nylon grips as shown in the pictures.

The guns were made in .22 and .45. I would say they were nice guns for the price (I think I paid somewhere aroung $55 for mine which was a lot at the time) as they were much cheaper than Colts and Ruger was not into SAA type guns at the time.

Erl stayed in that area for many years (don't remember exactly how many) but eventually with redevelopment he got bought out and his property became new commercial developments.

I don't know if I would call his guns high quality. They were good solid guns for fast draw, but the machining was occasionally a little sloppy (my signt groove on top of the frame is at a definite angle so using the sight is about useless without some kentucky windage.) Then again the guns were designed for only one thing - fast draw and cowboy type shoorting before there was Cowboy Action Shooting. They are good durable guns however and I still have mine. Not sure they are worth much.

Don't know what happened to Erl after he left the Norridge area, but I heard some years later that he died. Since I am now 68 he is gone for sure as I have owned my SAA from Erl for about 50 years now.

Hope that helps fill in the blanks somewhat. Erl was sort or a crusty old guy but fun to talk to and knew his guns.

 

[Oldgunnut]

I can give you a little background on Erl Svendsen. He had a gun shop in Norridge Illinois where I lived. It was on Harlem Avenue across from what is now the Harlem Irving Plaza.

He was into the fast draw clubs of the late 50s. I too bought my first gun from him (a .22 Pony Express). They were good serviceable guns that Erl made but the quality varied (mine has a sight channel on top of the frame that is skewed to the right so sight firing is impossible but they weren't made for target shooting). They were good serviceable guns that were well below the cost of Colts, and Ruger wasn't on the scene with their SAA types back then.

Erl was a character with is goatee, long hair, etc. I believe I paid about $50-60 for my first gun from him and I still have it.

Erl eventually left that area when it started going through major commercial development and moved further west (I think to Itasca).

I think about him every time I pick up that old gun, even though I have not fired in in probably 40 years.

Hope this helps.

 

[racecamaro]

Picture of a "4 Aces" .22 short

I have had this gun since the early 70s. I have never seen any others in my travels yet. Does any one have any idea if they are really a collectors item and how much they are worth? David - Miami,Fl

 

[Mike Faires]

4 Aces

Very interesting thread.
Mine is similar to the pictures with the following exceptions.

Marked
Left Side" 4 Ace Mfg. Company, Inc."
Brownsville, Tex. U.S.A.

Serial # F455X

Right Side "4 Aces"
22 L.R.

Mine has the fake pearl grips, a 2 piece cardbaord box (top is red), a small card indicating the designation "RE3", Serial No. "F455X", Model No. "202" and Caliber "22 LR" and a bifold "Instructions for Use and Maintenance" including a parts list.

If someone establishes pricing mine is for sale

 

[coyotebait]

My wife's Grandmother has one of Erl's revolvers, a Pony Express .38. Stamped Erl Svendsen firearms mfr. Chicago, Ill. I don't remember if it displayed a zip code though...probably. Appears to be in very good condition.

 

[coyotebait]

Here are some pics of it. Hope this works.