Who loads with an Arbor press?

[Andrew Leigh]

Hi,

I am strongly considering acquiring an arbor press and the dies associated with reloading with an Arbor press. I would like to ask some questions of people who use this method.

1. What controls the seating depth, the die or the ram on the press? If the ram on the press then how does one get fractional adjustments?

2. What would be a good brand to start with, I would preferably like to have all components come from one supplier.

3. Were there any improvements in accuracy? Having said which the major reason for wanting to pursue this route is not accuracy but rather convenience of developing loads on the range, this seems like the way to go.

Thanks

 

[jb27]

1. The seating depth is controlled by the die. I would suggest going with Wilson seating die with micrometer adjustment.

2. I use a K&M arbor press with force measurement.
http://www.kmshooting.com/catalog/arbor-press/arbor-press_with_force-measurement_and_dial-indicator.html

3. I just started using it recently and am in the process of comparing this method vs. using a Redding Competition seating die with conventional press. I haven't made it to the range to test yet.

I think one of the main reasons you see so many precision shooters using arbor presses is for the convenience of being able to take your reloading setup to the range for practice/competition to find the load that works best for the conditions on THAT day.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Thanks JB,

did you take the option with the dial gauge?

On the Wilson bullet seater are they calibre specific i.e. one per calibre?

Cheers

 

[jcwit]

Andy, did you click on jb's link?

Yes they are caliber specific.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

I did but was making sure.

To set up for 2 calibres along with a case trimmer and associated case prep tools and a press will cost circa USD 1000. A little rich bearing in mind that I am loading for hunting. Trying to figure out where to start. I can always case prep and prime with existing tools at home. That would leave the press and two vernier case seating dies. Still checking the pemutations.

 

[ericgst]

If I were to just want to develop loads at the range, I would have my brass presized and primed, and show up with a powder measure and seating die in a hand press.

 

[Walkalong]

I used an Arbor press exclusively for 6PPC at the range with a Niel Jones seater. The Niel Jones or the Wilson dies are the way to go for hand dies.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8827474&postcount=1

 

[John C]

I first read this, and thought that you were already a reloader, and wanted to branch out to an arbor press. Reading further, it sounds like you're not a reloader?

You don't need to drop a grand on this stuff. All you need is an arbor press, a Wilson neck sizing die, and a micrometer seating die. This will give you the minimum runout possible. Get a lee trimmer and full length sizing die. If you're not shooting a semi-auto, you will only need to full-length size every few loadings, increasing the life of your brass.

If you want to spend a little more cash, get a redding bump die, instead of a lee full length sizing die.

Go to the range with all your brass prepped and loaded with your test rounds. As you fire the rounds, neck size them and reload them on the arbor press. When you've reloaded the rounds several times and the bolt becomes difficult to close, bump the shoulder back a few thousands.

All of this is overkill for hunting, but not a bad way to go. You'll have to get two presses, an arbor press and a conventional press. But a used, cheap, crappy presses are readily available. You'll get the precision from the Wilson dies, so the other press doesn't matter.

Good luck,

-John

 

[jb27]

Thanks JB,

did you take the option with the dial gauge?

On the Wilson bullet seater are they calibre specific i.e. one per calibre?

Cheers

Yes, I opted for the one with the dial indicator.
Watching this video is pretty much what 'sold' me on the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PteQGi-LTdM
Using an arbor press gives you a good feel for seating the bullets, using the dial indicator will hopefully help train me to discern the varying amounts of pressure while seating.

If you are looking for an excellent neck sizing die, you don't need to look any further than a Lee Collet die. They are very reasonably priced and perform very well. They produce rounds with very low runout.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Hi John,

I do in fact handload, in fact I never shoot factory ammo. I have the full compliment of RCBS gear and load for 30-06 and 6.5X55mm and soon 9mmP when my handgun arrives.

I do indeed want to branch out and have an arbor press for the range.

I use a Lee Trimmer (which is fine) for now, a Lee hand primer. I also use Lee dies exclusively fior rifle.

The cost came in with the option of getting all the case prep stuff, the trimmer, neck reamer, primer uniformer, case holder etc. This for two calibre's. Sure is nice looking gear.

By the way how does the wind effect and electronic powder scale?

So for now methinks you are right. A micrometer seating die for each calibre and an arbor press should see me through. I have many batches of cases so I can prep many before going to the range. I do like the neck sizing option as I cannot get my Lee neck sizer to work correctly for me.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Walkalong, what is the brand of that arbor press? I like the dual posts for rigidity.

 

[Walkalong]

I have no idea. I bought it from a shooter who was getting out of Benchrest. I have never seen another one.

 

[John C]

Andrew;

I want to apologize. I typed my previous post on my iphone during church this morning. Don't tell my wife that's what I was doing during the mother's day service!

Anyways, tapatalk doesn't show the sidebar data for posters. So I didn't see that you're in South Africa. I imagine that it's that much more expensive to get reloading stuff. For the time being, you probably don't need a dedicated reloading arbor press. Look for a used metal working arbor press, if there are machine shops nearby. Alternately, a cheap Chinese import will work fine, too. Finally, if you have a regular bench vise, you can use the Wilson dies horizontally in that, until you decide you want to upgrade.

The neck sizing is great, but in order to get the most out of it, you'll really need to uniform the case necks. You're better off with a Lee Collet die, because it neck sizes from the inside, rather than from the outside.

Regardless, the best bang for the buck (rand?) is in the seating die. You'll get the lowest runout with that.

Good luck! What sort of rifles and bullets are you shooting down there? What game are you going after? It's every American hunter's dream to hunt in Africa. I know I'm jealous.

-John

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Hi John,

I have a Brno Model 2a, a CZ 6.5X55mm and a CZ 30-06.

I chase 130gr. Accubonds down the throat of the 6.5mm and 180gr. Accubonds down the 30-06. I am busy preparing a 6.5mm load of 120gr. Sierra Pro Hunters specifically for Springbuck.

I have chased 140gr. Sierra Pro Hunters down the 6.5mm with great success but would use this load on medium sized antelope like Blesbuck and Bushbuck. The 180's are for Kudu and Eland, have yet to shoot and Eland though.

On the 26th June I am off to the Eastern Cape area for a weeks hunt on a friends farm (he has three games farms in the area for private use only), yeah I know, this only happens to other people. Not too sure what is on the menu but probably Springbuck / Impala / Kudu / Bushbuck.

 

[docsleepy]

Andrew:

I use the Lee collet dies and when I attempted once to measure runout, there was virtually none, with a dial indicator. So I quit checking. I didn't even realize there is any other type of neck sizer!

I have the Wilson inline seater for 6PPC which I used with the K&M Arbor press (I don't have any force measurement). It works well. It is basically a much more refined version of the Lee Classic Loader seater, equipped with a micrometer adjustment. If you are desparate, you can even load with a small rubber mallet, and just check with a comparator. It will load fine that way, you just won't get the "feel." I'd suggest also the Hornady comparator, and if you don't like the internal diameter of their pre-prepared collets, you can drill or ream them out to match your lands. (I haven't done that).

An article posted on the other thread explained that Virgil loaded with a Wilson seater by pressing on it with his hands to feel the pressure himself!

I also have an RCBS (? I think) micrometer seater for .223. Both it and the Wilson worked well. The wilson is easy to use at the range.

At the range I believe a lot of people just use a powder thrower, but I found I could run my chargemaster off a battery and it was very easy to use (with wind shield). On a benchrest site I read, there was a huge interest in the chargemaster at the range back then. I haven't done that in a couple years. The people at the range think I am strange when I show up with a caliper comparator....

 

[jcwit]

I use a Sinclair Arbor Press with a Lee Loader die set with complete satisification. Being as you wish to just work up loads for hunting the Lee Loader would more than be up for the job.

I know I'm able to shoot one hole groups at 100 yds easily using the above set up in .223 off the bench.

Next is finding the equipment.

I see there's a Bald Eagle press for $75.00 plus shipping on the Bay. Thats a Buy It Now, not an auction.

 

[Maj Dad]

Simple As A Stone, and As Durable: Lee Trimmers

Andy, I have tried several case trimmers, and still have the Lyman Universal trimmer attached to my workbench, but I have just vowed never to use it again except in "emergencies." The %$#*& thing takes agonizing time to adjust, usually with 4-5 over-trimmed cases, then after a few cases, loses its setting, resulting in more over-trimmed cases. I have Lee trimmers for every caliber except the one I just acquired, and used the Lyman on the outside chance it would do o.k. Wrong, fail, B/P crisis With the Lee, you can make limited adjustment if it's too long by gently stoning the tip, but not if it's too short, though I have never encountered that. I chuck it into a drill (cordless or corded), trim, chamfer and debur, and no problems, ever. I am a repeatability fanatic, I guess, but who accepts random trim lengths... not me, for sure.

Don't tell my wife that's what I was doing during the mother's day service!

John C, your wife must not be very observant - I get thumped for reading the Bible during the sermon

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Thanks for the input so far guys.

I like the idea of the strain gauge having seen the video now and like the fact that the Wilson dies are stainless steel. Also like a micrometer setting on any piece of precision kit, make set up so much easier and quicker.

Do you know if Wilson does metric? Not a deal breaker as I am also comfortable with inches and thousands thereof. Just easier for me to work with units divisable by 10.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

I see Midway have the Bald Eagle for $70, great deal. Being in South Africa it is a mission to get stuff sent out. So if one goes to the effort it makes sense to buy once difficult to return things if not up to scratch. I really like the K&M version with the strain gauge, this make sense to me.

I have a friend, who is also a supplier located in Boulder, Co. He will order stuff for me, invoice it through his business for the correct paperwork for customs and shipping etc. This is a great help as many U.S. businesses don't trade outside the US.

 

[John C]

Andrew;

That sounds like quite a trip you have planned. I wish you the best of luck!

I also like your battery of rifles. I figured you'd have more European stuff compared to the predominance of US stuff over here. What sort of glass do you have on those rifles? At what distances do you usually shoot game?

I don't know, but I doubt that Wilson stocks metric versions of their dies. But it wouldn't hurt to check.

I don't think you need to worry about a strain gauge on your arbor press. The Wilson dies bottom out when the bullet has reached the set bullet depth. More or less pressure doesn't affect it, as long as you put enough on to actually seat the bullet. My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that the strain gauge is actually for bench rest (and similar) shooters that are segregating cases by the amount of case neck tension in the case. They will work up a load with a certain amount of neck tension. While loading, they will watch the strain gauge to make sure that each case has consistent tension. If a case falls outside of parameters, it doesn't get shot in a match.

If you're not turning case necks and managing case neck tension, this is more than you need. However, if it interests you, go for it.

-John

 

[docsleepy]

Another way to measure neck tension would be to get a simple spring gauge and use it to pull the handle of the arbor press. Then pull the handle down through the spring gauge.

http://www.sciencelabsupplies.com/M...g_x_10g.html?gclid=CI_djInjkrcCFcw7OgodhAQAqA

I have one that goes up to 10 lbs or so that I use for measuring trigger pull on hunting/mil surplus rifles. Fishermen use things like this up to 30 lbs or more.

If you preferred to PUSH, you could buy a spring from a hardware store, mount it inside a hole drilled into a piece of wood with the spring sticking out a bit, put a (shorter) guiding rod inside it affixed to the top of the spring and rig up a pointer to the spring and have a compression spring gauge of any sensitivity that you wished, depending on the spring you chose.

 

[Offfhand]

Arbor presses and in-line type bullet seating dies are pretty much SOP among benchrest shooters, though I do know a few big name bench shooters who bullet seat with screw-in press type seating dies. Mostly though these are very high end screw-ins with micrometer adjustments made by Billy Stevens.(Stevens Accuracy) Another very workable option is the Hood loading press which works with std. screw in sizing die but also serves as an arbor press for in-line bullet seating. Attached are photos showing my favorite arbor press with a JLC seating die, a Hood press with JLC die in arbor press position, and a beautiful Stevens screw-in type seating die with micrometer top. All of these tools are currently available except for the custom made arbor press, which was too rich even for the benchrest market.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Beautiful stuff there, can make a man salivate.

 

[Walkalong]

which was too rich even for the benchrest market.

And that is saying something.

When the Hood press first came out it sold like hot cakes. Great portable design, perfect for range boxes.

Stevens did the last barrel on my Bench gun, which lies idle in the safe.