Who makes a good 1911, with no MIM or cast parts?

[Rival]

Is there such a beast among modern factory made guns? Maybe some Les Baer, Wilson, Springfield Pro, how about Valtro? Is there factory made gun that is just perfect in the parts and quality department? Or you would have to go all custom?

 

[Old Fuff]

Any of the gentlemen you mentioned would build you what you want. The result will likely be very good, but the cost may be staggering. For the money involved I suggest that you seek out a good, used, early 1970 series pistol or pre-1970 series gun made after World War Two. These don’t contain any MIM or cast parts. If you want it customized go from there. If you want it extensively customized buy a new gun from the sources you mentioned.

 

[Dave Sample]

Who Knows?????????????????Maybe the Shadow Knows! I like good MIM parts.

 

[ether]

All the makes you listed will inevitably have cast parts, although Baer does not use any MIM parts. I can't speak for the others. If you can find a Norinco, those should be cast and MIM free.

 

[h_tolley]

according to 1911 forum .com

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=62993


Current colts have the sear, mag catch, disconector and plunger tube MIM. Not too bad, and you may be off to a cheaper start than buying separate parts.

FWIW I've replaced the sear and disconnector with good machine tool versions of same in all my colts.

 

[1911Tuner]

All the Right Stuff

Want a no-nonsense 1911 that's in-spec, has zero MIM or
investment cast parts-supplied-by-the-lowest-bidder?

Go find a Norinco that hasn't been fluffed, buffed, trigger jobbed
parts changed, or blinged. (Okay...If you know who did the trigger job, and it's not below 5 pounds, it''ll probably be good to go.)

I'd rather pay a Loaded Springfield price for a NIB Norinco than a
Norinco price for a new Loaded Springfield. Sad...

Damn! The truth hurts...

Cheers!

Tuner

 

[middy]

Go find a Norinco

It's amazing how cheaply one can produce a 100% machined steel 1911 with slave labor...

 

[Richardson]

Agreeing with what h_tolley said, Colts are some of the least MIM'd US made 1911's around.... Even their 1991 fits the bill.

Richardson

 

[1911Tuner]

Slave

T'was said:

It's amazing how cheaply one can produce a 100% machined steel 1911 with slave labor.

Yep...but the Norincos that are here have been here for years, and likely
mostly in private hands by now...so you wouldn't be supporting slave labor
by buying one that's in the pipes. The Chinese slave masters got their money years ago from somebody else.

And...is there any conclusive proof that they were built with slave labor...
or were the workers paid for their work? Might not have been a big salary, but it was probably something.

And...Go look under the hood of your car if it was produced in the last 10 years or so...Find anything marked Made in Mexico? Think they pay big
wages and offer fat retirement plans? Anything made in China under there? Look closely! You might be surprised.

Finally...If you'd like to make a point on the subject of slave labor/starvation wages as it relates to the world economy, you should start a thread in the Legal and Political forum. This one was about guns.

Cheers!

Tuner

 

[sm]

How much ...

....if a person orders a frame and slide from Caspian, and builds or has built a 1911 style like JMB designed , with the good internals and all as we are talking about, going to spend?

With a McCormick frame and slide?

I'm talking round figures for this, I understand there is a difference in parts, and pricing, I know labor has to figure in.

Just the simple GI style , finish and all.

 

[1911Tuner]

How Much?

Steve asked:

How much to build a no-frills USGI clone from aftermarket parts?

Well...ya can't do it with all aftermarket parts. I don't know of
anybody who makes a steel mainspring housing , grip safety, thumb
safety, or magazine catch. You'll have to scrounce the parts bins at
gun shows for US GI parts for those.

All the other stuff that IS available? I'd guess about a grand, if you build it
tourself...give or take. If somebody builds it for you and keeps the hand-fitting to a minimum...maybe add another 300 bucks or so.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[sm]

Tuner...

You know why I asked, where I was going with my inquiry?

If a person wants the "real deal" in a Gov't Model something to consider. At least get "as close" as can to the real deal.

Just a comparison I wanted to throw out to folks. Folks buy a gun, then throw away the new factory parts. So this means they have an additional "X" amount of money invested in the gun.

Some folks spend say $2k on a 1911 "the mfg" designed "kinda sorta close" to what the customer wanted...still more money is invested in the gun to fit the customers needs, wants, reliaibility, ...etc.

Perhaps my background, the Mom&PoP business, quality control, customer service and all....

I do appreciate pride of ownership, sentimental value, and the other factors, I had to deal with and I did - did respect this in my former life work. Many a time I could build better quality from "scratch" and give the customer what they wanted for less monies. Sometimes I could take the basic needed "part" and using that for the base ( akin to frame and slide on a 1911) again build a better quality product for less monies than a more pricey factory one.

Why do I want to pay $2k for what the factory "thinks" I need , when perhaps $1500 gives ME what I want with better quality?

Then again I have no problem with a OLD 1911 style with the blue worn and in need of a set of stocks and a recoil spring.

 

[1911Tuner]

Close

Ah! Gotcha Steve.

Actually, you could get out cheaper by buying a Springfield GI mil-spec or Colt WW2 repro and upgrading. I did it to the Springer that I bought. It
now wears all steel parts, including a USGI thumb safety and '66 Colt
commercial grip safety and hammer. It's got a Colt nylon trigger...for now...and I just got a GI mag catch for it, but not installed and tested yet. The mainspring housing is a Smith & Alexander...a casting, but not critical. If I can find a
flat, checkered steel pre-A1 MSH, I'm golden. Looks good so far. Now if I can just talk Fuff out of another dang trigger...

Total cost for the upgrade, including the hammer/sear/disconnect set was about 200 bucks. The gun is in-spec...functions flawlessly...well fitted...
and it looks good, at least to my old cranky eye.

 

[ScottS]

Removed, as the above posting is on USGI spec guns, and I can't read, evidently. My info was on building a non-milspec-looking gun, which is what I built.

Scott

 

[XMP]

Yep, this is what we all need: The Tuner Real Steel 1911. Tuner, how about we start a waiting list. I'll unselfishly volunteer to be first

 

[sm]

Tuner,

I appreciate the information.
I was asking on behalf of others whom ask the original question as presented in the thread title.

Academy Sports gets less than $450 for SA, add $200 and one has a "quality" 1911.

ScottS - Not really. Applicable to any "Quality" 1911 style for any task.

"IF" one needs a ducktail...and yeah some folks do add that. I'm not wanting to argue the doodads and stuff, there is a need and legitimate place. "Gun must fit shooter and task" dealie.

I'm just suggesting before someone looks at a wish catalog and starts spending money, to go shoot a basic gun for a bit and see what "they need". Try as many makes and such before one buys.

I mean if the 1911 is for bulls-eye, IDPA, IPSC...etc., try a variety before you buy and get what fits you for the intended task.

Heck folks buy Caspian frame and slides and have built for them what they want for IDPA and IPSC , including 38 super and 9x23 all the time. It fits them, what they want...not what everyone is using, suggesting.

I mean I do test drive a vehicle before I buy one. What the wish books and all describe and picture versus what I actually fit in it and how it drives to me are not always the same thing.

 

[1911Tuner]

Removed?

Scott S removed his post?

Why'd ya do that? If you've built a good one, we wanna hear about it! The part about findin' an un-Blinged 'Rinco was to make sure it hadn't been fixed to death by somebody with a Brownells catalog and a Dremel and not much else to go on.

By all means...Jump in!

Tuner

 

[sm]

I know folks that bought Norincos way back when. They all wish they had bought more. The price was small and the quaity great... and then a certain politician gimped everthing up.

One has fat hands, he gets bit no matter what he does, even adjusting his Lazy Boy...his eyes are going too. Ducktail and AO sights works for him. I have no problem with that.

Yeah ScottS...show and tell please sir!

 

[ScottS]

Well, I had to reread the thread, as it looked like we were focusing on milspec type guns, but, hey, any chance to yak about my 1911...

I built one on a CMC frame/slide, using essentially no MIM parts. Everything was barstock/billet/forged, right down to the plunger tube (like that matters, but, hey, Ed Brown made one, so I bought it.) Ed Brown Hardcore, Wilson Bulletproof, EGW, SVI, C&S, etc. One piece magwell/MSH was S&A, which they (S&A) told me is not MIM, but is probably machined from a casting. Finding a USGI flared magwell was a little hard. Cost for the whole project was right at $1000.

FWIW, Ed Brown makes a machined-from-barstock mag catch, and SVI makes a machined-from-billet thumb safety. Ed Brown also makes machined-from-barstock MSH's, both straight and curved.

I got virtually everything through my Brownells and Midway USA catalogs, including the slide, and I should have gotten the frame through Brownells, as well. Got kind of ripped there (my own fault). Great experience.

Fun to shoot, too.

Scott

Pic has been shown before, but, hey, it's like my kid...

 

[sm]

GREAT!

I am glad you shared, this is what I was talking about earlier. You have what YOU want for YOUR needs.

You "done good"...you should be proud.

 

[1911Tuner]

Yakkin' Bojt a 'Leven

Nice work Scott! A couple of questions...

I can't tell from the photo..Is the mag catch standard length or
extended? Is the billet thumb safety available in standard
configuration or extended only?

Spot on about the S&A MSH...They're castings, or they appear to be.
Very good ones though, and perfectly suited to casting. Not an issue
unless a body is anal-retentive about it...Don't ask...

Standin' by...

Tuner

 

[ScottS]

Tuner,

Thanks! I sure like it. Front site is a bit tall, so I think I'll swap it with a lower one I've got laying around. Other than that, I'm going to shoot her as is for a couple of thousand rounds and see how it goes. So far 200+ rounds with one FTF that was mag-related.

Brown makes both standard and extended-length barstock mag catches. I have the .060" extended, IIRC. Have to check the list. I know, a guy should know these things, but I went through two or three iterations before I settled on one I liked.

AFAIK, SVI only has a "tactical" style safety, with both wide and narrow paddle. When I ordered mine, I just had to specify narrow. Kind of a PITA since they don't have stocking dealers, and their website isn't buyer friendly.

Scott

 

[Old Fuff]

I have built several "Plain-Jane" Government Model pistols using Caspian frames and slides. The rest of the parts, including the barrel, were commercial Colt or USGI stuff that was laying around. Cost, not counting the "on-hand" parts was under $500.00 - way under that is. I think to duplicate it would cost twice as much today. One suggestion. You can save some money by going to a standard Colt barrel, rather then the "match" kind that are so often advertised at over $100.00.

If I decided to not begin from scratch I do what Tuner did. Get either a Colt or Springer, and replace the sub-standard lockwork. It would make a satisfactory gun, but I wouldn't leave it near my older Colts - they might get upset.