Why 44 Mag over 45 Colt?

[ATLDave]

I've been reading a bit about big-bore revolvers, and a question has formed in my mind. Why would one choose a revolver in .44 magnum a similarly-modern one in .45 colt? It appears that modern .45's can safely tolerate loads that easily match or even exceed what .44's can do, all while affording the possibility of an even larger (weight AND diameter) projectile.

So far, I can only think of two reasons:

1. If you don't handload/reload, you're stuck with .45 Colt cartridges designed to be safe in SAA's and which are well back of the .44 magnum.
2. If you plan to use the gun for "social" purposes as well as woods/hunting use, .44 specials are probably easier to use with a speedloader due to their shorter length.

Any other reasons? What am I missing?

 

[Certaindeaf]

Way more guns are offered in .44 mag than .45 Colt. Also, length of the case has nothing to do with speedloading/loading ease.

 

[ATLDave]

Also, length of the case has nothing to do with speedloading/loading ease.

That is contrary to my (limited) experience with .38 vs .357. And with various things that I have read. And it seems contrary to basic geometry, too. A 5° variance in the direction/orientation of a speedloader will obviously have a greater effect on the location of bullets that are on a longer radius (length of case) than a shorter radius.

Maybe this is something that varies from person to person.

 

[22-rimfire]

ATLDave, It think you got it as long as you reload.

 

[buck460XVR]

What am I missing?

This is one of the most common threads here or any other gun forum. Worse than "what gun for me?" or "best gun for bear?"

Always comes down to personal preference and the same "my dog is better than your dog".......always.

A quick search of .44 VS .45 here shows 216 threads.......

 

[USSR]

If you don't handload/reload, you're stuck with .45 Colt cartridges designed to be safe in SAA's and which are well back of the .44 magnum.

Easily the primary reason. However, I reload and load the venerable .45 Colt from mild to wild.

Don

 

[CraigC]

I own five .45Colt's, none of them cheap, two of which are capable of Ruger only loads or beyond. I don't drink the .45Colt Kool Aid. My preference is for the .44Mag for several reasons.

1. Regardless of what gets regurgitated from Linebaugh articles, the .45Colt does not exceed the performance of the .44Mag in a six shot Blackhawk. I have the utmost respect for John but his article was written in the mid `80's and in reference to the .44Mag, it is a bit outdated. In the real world, the .44Mag maintains a 100fps advantage for comparable bullet weights. For comparable sectional densities, right up to 355gr .44's and 395gr .45's, the .44 maintains a 200fps advantage. This is not watered down 25,000psi Speer data but full pressure 32,000psi Linebaugh and Hodgdon data.

2. Factory .45Colt dimensions are all over the place. Except for FA's and BFR's, they all tend to have oversized chambers. In which case, pressure that should be used to propel the bullet is used to expand the case to meet the chamber walls. Chamber mouths can run from undersized to oversized with very few just right. Even Colt with their vastly improved SAA, still builds them with .456" mouths. None of this adds up to a very accurate sixgun. Whereas the .44Mag tends to shoot well right out of the box.

3. The .45Colt only really starts coming into its own in custom five-shot guns. Where you have tight, linebored chambers and thick enough chamber walls to withstand a steady diet of 50-55,000psi loads. Even so, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that launching heavy cast bullets faster than 1200-1300fps does not improve its effectiveness but only flattens trajectory. Personally, if I'm going to the expense of building a custom five-shot Ruger, I'll take the mass of the .475 or .500 over the velocity of the .45Colt.

4. In mid frame guns like the Colt SAA, replicas and mid frame Rugers, the .45Colt is a LOT of wasted case capacity. At pressures in the 22,000psi range, there's just way too much wasted space in that case. At this strength level, the .44Spl has it all over the .45Colt. It's much more efficient and in proper sixguns, the 1200fps Keith load is a viable option.


None of which is to say that the .45Colt is a bad cartridge or that anyone who shoots one is a fool. Just that there are some very good reasons to choose .44's over .45's and that handloading is not always the deciding factor. In the end it all boils down to whatever makes your dobber quiver because no critter will ever know the difference.

PS, two of my .45's are for sale, none of my dozen or so .44's ever will be.

 

[StrawHat]

I reload and used to be a 44 Magnum fan. I used Elmers loads and saw how they worked on deer. At the shot, they would take off and the trail usually ended with 100 yards. My hunting pal was a 45 long Colt fan and I would watch him shoot and they would drop at the shot. Some of it was shot placement but even with similar placememnt, for some reason the 45 would stop them quicker. Eventually, I started using a 45 long Colt and with the 260 grain lead bullets going about 950 - 1000 fps, the deer were dropping faster then the Magnum. Not sure why, nor do I really care. Now, as I am older, I am finding the recoil I used to cherish is no longer such a friend. The softer recoiling harder hitting cartridges are becoming my go to cartridges. Mostly loaded with black powder or to black powder ballistics.

 

[ATLDave]

Thanks, CraigC, interesting stuff. I had forgotten all about the tendency towards varying chamber dimensions in .45 Colt.

 

[hardluk1]

I like the 44mag's. There are more handguns choices to pick from and when the 44mag is loaded to max that some revovers can handle it leaves nothing on the table to the 45lc ruger loads. So if you wish to push the limits buy a 454cassul. Otherwise I will take a 44mag any day.

 

[unspellable]

45 Colt load levels

Fist off, I hav anic e newy 45 Colt that I would NOT dare to use anything heavier than a factory load in.

That said, I also have, and there are plenty of others out there, revolvers that will obviously stand up to heavier than factory loads. My complaint is that all the loading data I see is either factroy level, or Ruger Blackhawk only labeled. I'd like some heavy load data for those other revolvers.

 

[mavracer]

CraigC nailed it. "In the end it all boils down to whatever makes your dobber quiver because no critter will ever know the difference."
I'll add one more very small reason the 45 Colt was originally designed with a SA pushrod ejector in mind as such it has a small rim and with a DA star ejector it is possible to have the rim slip past the ejector. Usually it's not real hard to avoid but when it happens it's a PITA.

 

[JShirley]

To add to what Craig said, there is more meat in the .44 cylinders, except for the 5-shot wheelguns. Larger case capacity + weaker cylinders (and sometimes brass) could be a bad combination. Now, I have 2 .45 Colts, and a .454, but only 1 .44, so I obviously have no axe to grind here, but facts are facts.

John

 

[unspellable]

Rims

Starline once made a run of 45 Colt brass with wide rims. Unfortunately for me, I found out about it after they sold out. Here's hoping they do it again.

There is a now strangely and thuroughly forgotten cartridge called the 45 Revolver that was essentially a 45 Colt with wide rim. It was chambered in the 1909 New Service and loaded for military contract. As far as I know it was never loaded for the commericial market. The 1909 was meant to use the 45 Colt as a secondary cartridge, but is sighted for the 45 Revolver which was loaded to ballistics more like the Schoefield.

 

[USSR]

My complaint is that all the loading data I see is either factroy level, or Ruger Blackhawk only labeled. I'd like some heavy load data for those other revolvers.

There is load data out there in the 20k - 25k psi range, which neatly fits inbetween the factory loads and Ruger-only loads. What make revolvers are you talking about?

Don

 

[CraigC]

There is load data out there in the 20k - 25k psi range, which neatly fits inbetween the factory loads and Ruger-only loads.

Yep, good for Ruger New Vaqueros and mid-frame flat-tops, post-war Colt SAA's and USFA's. Not a good idea for Italian replicas.

 

[Certaindeaf]

That is contrary to my (limited) experience with .38 vs .357. And with various things that I have read. And it seems contrary to basic geometry, too. A 5° variance in the direction/orientation of a speedloader will obviously have a greater effect on the location of bullets that are on a longer radius (length of case) than a shorter radius.

Maybe this is something that varies from person to person.

You need better speedloaders/ditch those HKS's.

 

[unspellable]

Prssure is not the only issue. I have an N frame S&W. That will take the same pressure as a Ruger Blackhawk, but Blackhawk type loads will cause it to develope premature end shake.

On the other hand, I have a Raging Bull in 45 Colt. Obviously it will take the heaviest loads as far as end shake is concerned, but being a six holer, it will not take 454 casull pressures. But what pressure level is it good for?

Some day I might pick up a Dan Wesson in 45 Colt.

 

[USSR]

Prssure is not the only issue. I have an N frame S&W. That will take the same pressure as a Ruger Blackhawk, but Blackhawk type loads will cause it to develope premature end shake.

On the other hand, I have a Raging Bull in 45 Colt. Obviously it will take the heaviest loads as far as end shake is concerned, but being a six holer, it will not take 454 casull pressures. But what pressure level is it good for?

The S&W N frame will handle the 25k psi loads with ease, and will not develop premature end shake at that pressure level. I load 255gr to 270gr bullets up to 1100fps in my 6" S&W 25-5 (20k - 25k psi loads) without stressing the gun at all. Not familiar with the Raging Bull, so cannot offer advice.

Don

 

[SDGlock23]

I'm a .45 Colt guy all the way. There are more revolver options in a .44 Mag and as has been stated, if you don't handload the options for "heavy" .45 Colt are pretty slim. Compare Federal .45 Colt at Walmart (essentially .45 ACP level) to any .44 Mag there and there's a big difference.

I like that the .45 Colt has quite the history and can throw big chunks of lead down range. While I tend to agree that for most North American game you wouldn't likely see much of a difference between the two, I still like a bigger hole. It's also doubtful you could tell the difference between a .41 Mag and a .44 Mag, and there's more difference in caliber between the .45 Colt (.451"+) and the .44 Mag (.429")than there is between the .44 Mag and a .41 Mag (.410").

Caliber wise there's about as much difference between a .45 Colt and a .44 Mag as there is between a .475 (Ruger/Linebaugh) and a .45 Colt. Would you notice much difference between a 480 Ruger and a .45 Colt?

 

[CraigC]

That will take the same pressure as a Ruger Blackhawk

No it won't.

Would you notice much difference between a 480 Ruger and a .45 Colt?

The .475 is a whole nuther critter. While the six shot Ruger .45 struggles to make 1050fps with 395gr cast bullets (sectional density of .270 but overweight for the cartridge at this pressure), the .475 thrives on 430's@1350fps. Big difference. The .480 is only 3000psi behind it and only loses 100fps.

 

[unspellable]

When tested to failure, a Blackhawk 45 Colt cylinder and a S&W 45 Coilt cylinder both failed at the same pressure, 60 kpsi.

That's all I will say on this. I do not care to engage in another pissing contest.

 

[CraigC]

This ain't a pissing contest. The N-frame is at its limit with the .44Mag so no, it can't take the same loads as a large frame Ruger .45Colt. Unless you don't mind rebuilding your guns every couple thousand rounds, if that.

 

[35 Whelen]

I'm not a big handgun guy, but I do own a .44 Special and a 45 Colt. Have yet to hunt with either of them.

That said, isn't it a pretty safe assumption that any reasonable load with either is going to penetrate a broadside shot on a deer? If so, given similar or identical bullets, say a semi-wadcutter, in a .44 and a .45, wouldn't a larger diameter bullet do more damage? Maybe that's why StrawHat has better luck with his .45 than he did with his .44.

35W

 

[Jaymo]

I own both and I like both. The .44 has the edge in factory ammo selection.
Either one can be loaded hot enough for anything I want to hunt.