Why a .38 snubbie?

[MCgunner]

I still don't understand how people can possibly carry J-frames in their pockets, unless they're jacket pockets. I have a Desantis Nemesis for mine - its never been used because I don't like the look of the butt of my 637 sticking out of my jeans pocket.

Wrangler's cargo jeans. About any carpenter's jeans. The front pockets are plenty large enough. I even fit my son-in-law's new Taurus PT145 11 round capacity double stack .45ACP in my carpenter's jeans pocket. That one was a little tight. The snub has room to spare.

All jeans pockets are not built alike. I don't buy Rustlers anymore.

 

[black_powder_Rob]

a lot here and only got half way down the page, but the reason i like the 38 snubby over the 357 snubby is the size. If the snubby is for concealed carry then smaller is usually better and the 38's are usually smaller. just my observation.

 

[Peakbagger46]

I respect the opinions here of people who don't like shooting .357 in a lightweight, but I shoot my 340 M&P very well with mag loads. On top of that, I have a wilderness carry gun going in places where I would not be comfortable with .38 rounds.

 

[Benzene]

Great help!!!

Thanks for the sharing of ACTUAL EXPERIENCES on the issue. I don't think there's any qualms that the .38's are easier to carry concealed. But what about effectiveness? Of course, there's also no disputing that handguns are not the most effective "stoppers". I like the idea of finding a comfortable compromise between carry ease and effectiveness, but I wonder if the "effectiveness" factor does not account for the professionals [the police, say] dropped the caliber.

 

[Peakbagger46]

I believe the FBI stats still have the .357 at the top of the list statistically for one-shot stops in gunfights.

 

[FireInCairo]

I paid $479 for my 642 a couple months ago (Cabellas).

 

[weisse52]

I still don't understand how people can possibly carry J-frames in their pockets, unless they're jacket pockets

Do it each and every day. You just have to plan for the extra bulk when you buy your pants.

It is late and I am lazy, but when you start looking at the stats for .357 / .38 in the short barrel you may notice that you really lose quite a bit in terms of FPS for the .357. Not sure that I have kept up with the latest numbers, but I do remember that a while back it did influence my decison to stay with non-magnum rounds in short barrel handguns.

I do carry +P and that is not fun to shoot. In most cases I practice with wadcutters and just shoot a few +P's to stay in practice.

 

[Leaky Waders]

http://www.snubnose.info/docs/Theory.htm

I have a ladysmith 357. I basically chose it due to the magnum frame. If they had a truly dedicated frame in 38 at the time, I would've purchased that one.

.38's are cheaper to buy/shoot with less recoil/less muzzle flash than a .357.

 

[rdrancher]

Just to give you some more reading on the subject...Buffalo Bore offers some of the best "designer" type ammunition. The owner tests out of his own guns and publishes the results. Testing on the original brassfetcher site, my own Behind the Barn observations and others I don't have right at hand obtained similar results.

.38 special +P offerings and the owners thought here:
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=108

.357 Magnum Tactical Low Flash here:
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=105

Brassfetcher:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/oldindex.html

And lastly, one of my favorite snubbie articles/ammo tests:
http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/pocket_dynomite/

Hope this helps.

rd

 

[Benzene]

Accuracy

Is there a compromise in accuracy when shooting the .38 special round from a snubby designed for the .357 round? Thanks.

 

[Hoxviii]

Possibly, depends on the specific gun. My SP101 shoots .38 and .357 just as accurately. My M27 noticeably loses accuracy with .38's.

As for a J frame in the pocket, I have a model 36 that I can just toss in there and go- not even in really lose pockets. With a pocket holster it looks just like a wallet, if someone even notices; even wearing standard cut jeans.

A lot of it depends on the way YOU are built and the way YOU dress. The way I'm built and the way I dress just happens to make hiding anything short of an N frame IWB insanely easy.

 

[Photoman]

"Why would one buy a .38 snubbie when a .357 version can shoot most versions of the .38 special cartridge AND the famed .357 - equivalent to two guns for the price of one?"


Because Smith & Wesson never made the 2" Model 65 that I want!

 

[PT1911]

i am just not a fan of snubbies in general... that said, if I every own a .38 it will be a model 10 or 64 because of their remarkable point and shoot accuracy. otherwise, I will always opt for the .357 and then decide what to put through it....

 

[Brian Dale]

I didn't even like shooting hot .38s from my Dad's Colt Cobra (an alloy framed Detective Special). I want a carry gun that I can hang on to in order to make good additional shots, if need be.

.357 in a steel frame gun is not that bad, even a 2 incher.

You were probably wearing proper hearing protection.

I like the idea of finding a comfortable compromise between carry ease and effectiveness, but I wonder if the "effectiveness" factor does not account for the professionals [the police, say] dropped the caliber.

I think that you're right. I'll point out that the police are sworn and paid to go out and catch bad guys, while all I need to do is to get away.

Is there a compromise in accuracy when shooting the .38 special round from a snubby designed for the .357 round? Thanks.

Yes, it's been reported that .38 Spl. rounds tend to be more accurate when fired from dedicated .38 Spl. revolvers. However, the decrement in accuracy is small enough that it's unlikely to make a difference in a modern defensive shooting. For a detective in the old days, needing to stop a fleeing felon at 50 yards with his snub-nosed revolver, it might have made a difference.

 

[BulletshooterNJ]

RD rancher's post

rdrancher mentioned something about the AirLite J Frames being constructed of "unobtanium", and I immediately thought of lame science fiction movies where the characters spew out all sorts of made-up elements and metals, usually along with tons of technical terms ("the reactor core is down to 65 percent! The remaining photon torpedoes are at full capacity!" etc, often while under fire from all directions by remarkably human-looking alien enemies who pilot clumsily designed space fighters.

 

[Glockman17366]

In terms of price, you can't really compare across manufacturers - S&W is renowned for quality while Taurus is not (I'm not saying they're not good - I've never shot one. But they definitely are not known for quality anywhere near that of S&W)

(Bolded text) This is only on gun forums...mostly by folks who never owned or shot Taurus revolvers...they're every bit as good as S&W.

 

[ceadermtnboy]

The Taurus I bought and shot, was a POS. I would never buy another one.

 

[doc540]

This:



Concealable: check

Accurate: check

Dependable: check

Controllable: check

Effective: check

Classic Design: check

Quality: check

Fun to shoot: check

Safe: check

Comfortable: check

What else ya wanna know?

 

[spiroxlii]

I have a S&W 637. That's an Airweight .38spl with the Chief's Special frame (exposed hammer). I carry it because it's the most comfortable gun I've ever worn, and it melts away under a t-shirt when I carry IWB.

Why did I pick .38spl instead of .357mag? I don't want to start a cartridge war over here. I think .357mag is a fine cartridge with plenty of power. I just feel that .38spl is more than adequate for personal defense at the effective range of a snubnose revoler. I could sit here all day trying to come up with scenarios where .357mag might just save the day... but in most cases where a .38spl snubnose won't do the job, a .357mag snubnose probably wouldn't be my first choice of alternative weapon.

Try something out. Go to bed tonight. Arrange for a loud noise to wake you up. It's dark. You're groggy. You're in a small room with walls all around you and a ceiling above you. Discharge a .38spl and then discharge a .357mag. Neither one is much fun AT ALL, but I know which one I'd rather have going off in front of my face. The less deaf and blind I am, the better.

Bottom line: At personal and home defense ranges, and especially considering my effective accurate range with a snubnose, .38spl is plenty for me. My regular defensive ammo is the Hornady XTP/JHP 125gr standard pressure load. It gets great penetration and reliable expansion in gelatin tests.

 

[Benzene]

Useful vs useless

Thanks for sharing valuabe ACTUAL PERSONAL EXPERIENCES and logical recommendations. But I find such expressions like "POS" useless. I own several weapons from a number of manufacturers (including S&W, Colt, SA), and one of my favourite guns is the TAURUS 608 (8-shot, .357 magnum [regardless of how hot the magnum], 4" ported barrel). Very few are the times when I'd take it to the range and NOT get some admiring comments at least. (not the reason I take it there).

I think that the argument made here for the .38 round for self-defence is strong. But wouldn't the stronger frame of the .357 round be a plus when shooting the .38 special round? Is the accuracy so negatively affected?

 

[Brian Dale]

But wouldn't the stronger frame of the .357 round be a plus when shooting the .38 special round? Is the accuracy so negatively affected?

Sure; greater strength means a longer life span for any mechanical object. Still, .38 Special revolvers already last for generations. Also, weight matters; that's why my Dad carried that Colt Cobra that I didn't enjoy shooting.

My experience has been that the accuracy of .38 Special rounds in the .357 Magnum revolvers that I've shot has been better than my own shooting accuracy. I do notice a difference on targets, in that .357s out of the borrowed Python that I get to shoot are generally right at point of aim, while .38s tend to shoot a little high for me.

They're all "on target" for the purposes of any defensive scenario that I can reasonably contemplate as a private citizen.

 

[Camjr]

My experience is simple. I have to WORK to conceal a full size XD40, even in an excellent IWB MTAC Minotaur holster. My 642 (plain jane, no aftermarket grips or lasers) is my every day, any where, always with me gun. I go back and forth between the Nemesis and Mika depending on the shape of the pockets of the pants or cargo shorts I'm wearing. Both conceal very well and I simply don't notice I'm carrying a gun.

I certainly don't feel undergunned because I don't have a .357 on me. Would I like to have 12 rounds plus a spare mag of 40 S&W in the XD? Sure I would. Am I more accurate in a range setting with a full size bottom feeder? Sure I am. Do I worry that the 642 with GD short barrel .38+p and a couple of speed strips is not up to the task? NEVER! It's also one of the most instinctive point shooting gun I've shot. Accurate enough at the ranges I'll need it (praying that day never comes). I fell in love with the J frame airweights a while back, and think they are a great carry gun.

On another note, please pray for our troops in harms way today as we enjoy another holiday with our families here at home.

Cheers!

 

[ArmedBear]

The fact is, few people are going to shoot 10,000 rounds through a sub-1-pound snubbie anyway. I have every bit of confidence in the durability of the Airweight with hot .38s in it. It's a well-made gun. But the reality is, nobody outside of Smith and Wesson's R&D department is probably ever going to shoot enough rounds through it to find out exactly how long it lasts.

Is a .357 frame stronger? Sure. But if that was all you cared about, you could get a 627, a .357 N-frame, and shoot .38 target loads through it. It weighs as much as a Super Blackhawk, but what the hell.

Is a .600 Nitro Express a more powerful stopper than a .357 Magnum? Sure.

I think you get my drift...

ALL firearms, and all mechanical devices, are engineered as compromises between a number of conflicting factors. You can get NASCAR-style performance from a Detroit V-8 engine. For 500 miles or so. That same V-8 will take your loaded work truck 200,000 miles or more without major maintenance, but it won't be set up to top 200 MPH on straightaways. TANSTAAFL.

The J-frame Airweight with hot .38 Special +P happends to hit the "sweet spot" for a lot of people, including me. They're hardly free, but they're not north of $700 either. They aren't fun to shoot 150 rounds of full-power loads though, but they're totally manageable guns.

I drove into the foothills yesterday, hiked up to the mountains, climbed up over the city and enjoyed a panoramic view of all of Southwestern Idaho. I had a 642 stashed in a very simple IWB holster, loaded with alternating snake shot and Cor-Bon rounds, a speedloader of snake shot and a speedloader of Cor-Bons. No sweat. Didn't weigh my down or get in my way at all, and I kept on wearing the same gun when I went to the store on the way home.

Would a 629 have been more powerful? Yeah. Would a NAA .22LR Mini-Revolver been even easier to carry? Sure.

The 642, though, has enough oomph, but doesn't weigh me down much more than the Mini.

That's why the things are so damned popular.