Why a .38 snubbie?

[Benzene]

Why would one buy a .38 snubbie when a .357 version can shoot most versions of the .38 special cartridge AND the famed .357 - equivalent to two guns for the price of one?

 

[archigos]

.357s are pricier and require more, heavier, or pricier metals.

 

[Benzene]

Hmmm...that much?

Is the weight difference that much? And with regard to being "pricier", a Taurus 605 [a .357 magnum 5-shooter] is priced at $360 at one of my favourite gunshops while a S&W 642 [a .38spl 5-shooter] is priced at $650! Plus, isn't the bit more weight an advantage? One isn't talking about significant weight differences, or is that the case? My 342 PD AirLite is a 5-shot .38 special [cost me almost $600 OTD] and is just over 10 ounces - BUT is a "mule" to shoot!

 

[David E]

$650 for a 642 is insane.

The blue 442 version has gone up to $400.

The titanium/scandiums cost too much for only saving 3-4 oz.

And I'd never shoot a magnum in one of those, so what am I gaining again?

.

 

[archigos]

In terms of price, you can't really compare across manufacturers - S&W is renowned for quality while Taurus is not (I'm not saying they're not good - I've never shot one. But they definitely are not known for quality anywhere near that of S&W). For example, the MSRP of a Hi-Point 45 ACP pistol is $186. The MSRP of a CZ 75 Kadet (.22LR) is $689.

In terms of weight / amount of metal, it certainly matters for the primary function of a snub-nosed revolver - concealed carry. The heavier it is, the more its going to drag down your clothes and the less comfortable it is going to be to wear. If you add more metal, the price increases and the revolver becomes bulkier. If you change the metal to a more durable but still lightweight metal (Scandium) the price increases dramatically.

 

[Benzene]

Makes sense...well, some

archigos, your statement does make sense to me, at least some. Thanks. Without getting into any clash about brand-names and accompanying prices, I'm quite satisfied with the Taurus weapons I own [including the PT 1911 and the PT 145] as well as those from other manufacturers (S&W, Ruger, Colt], and I do find it hard to justify the price differences based on PERFORMANCE. I'm aware of the negative comments about Taurus customer service, and I hope I'm spared that trouble. In fact, my experience with them is so far positive - putting me probably in the minority on this issue. I also hear equally - if not more - negative comments about customer service about TASCAM, one of my favourite music equipment manufacturers. I guess I've been lucky - so far.

David E, I don't know how much this attenuates the "insanity" of the price for the S&W 642, but it carries the laser grip - and, yes, the dreaded lock!

 

[Madcap_Magician]

.357 magnum cartridges are slightly longer than .38 Special cartridges. Shooting .38 in a .357 cylinder extensively will produce a ring of buildup that can cause .357 magnum cartridges to no longer fit the chamber correctly. It's a lot harder to clean a .357 that's had a lot of .38 fired through it than it is to just clean a .38.

If you're only going to carry a .38, there's not much point to getting a .357. I have an SP101 in .357 that I like, but I carry a S&W 642 because it fits me well, points naturally, shoots to my point of aim, and carries easily. I wouldn't want a similar-weight gun in .357.

 

[MCgunner]

If I had a Scandium .357, I'd shoot .38s in it and carry .38s in it anyway. The SP101 is the lightest .38, well, maybe a M60 Smith/605 Taurus at about 25 ounces, that I will shoot .357 in. .357 is hard on these little revolvers, anyway, well maybe not the SP101 so much, but the lesser guns.

I have a little alloy framed Taurus UltraLite that is easy to carry in a pocket. It and the Smith 642 and other such .38s are considerably easier to carry in a pocket than steel and more affordable than Titanium and can handle +P .38. I don't really want a .357 snub, personally. If I get another SP101, it'll be a 3". It's no pocket gun, anyway, too heavy. And, it hurts to shoot without a Hogue grip on it, bangs my middle finger senselessly. The Hogue won't go in a pocket, so it goes IWB. Pocket revolvers, far as I'm concerned, are all alloy .38s. .38 special is plenty of caliber for self defense. It flashes less and bangs less than .357, especially from a 2" barrel. It just makes a lot more sense.

 

[Jim K]

I have fired the very lightweights in .357 and prefer not to do so again. The fact is that while the recoil is controllable for someone who has done a lot of shooting, most folks find it well beyond excessive. The result is that they will carry the gun (if they don't trade it) but will never shoot it enough to become proficient.

IMHO, one is better carrying a lower power gun with which one is proficient than a more powerful gun with which one cannot hit anything.

Jim

 

[Benzene]

Now, THAT makes a lot of sense.

Thanks, MCgunner, especially for indicating a difference between titanium and scandium versions, and the statement, "far as I'm concerned, are all alloy .38s. .38 special is plenty of caliber for self defense. It flashes less and bangs less than .357, especially from a 2" barrel."

Thanks, Jim Keenan, for sharing useful personal experience.

Now, THAT'S information that even I can use.

 

[hardluk1]

Discounting any weight difference and cubic dollars needed to get that smae lightest weight 357 is that the recoil can be tought to follow up as quicklt as with a 39 in the same weight and size gun .Also the muzzle blast can blind both you and them at night also you will have hearing problems from that day forword. DID YOU HEAR ME. I to would shoot the 38's regardless of gun for defence . Only if in the woods around bear or big cat country would i want mags and then it might be the 44.

 

[MedWheeler]

Most of the people who think it would be fun to shoot Magnum loads from a two-inch barrel are people who have never done it..

 

[Hoxviii]

.357 in a steel frame gun is not that bad, even a 2 incher.

I bought a steel snub .357 for the option of shooting .38 or .357. However, after shooting .357 and .38 out of it, my recovery time with .357 is short enough that that's what it's stoked with. I carry IWB, so a little extra size isn't that big of a deal.

However, if I ankle or pocket carried I'd want something smaller and lighter weight which would put me into the alloy J frame category which would then necessitate going .38 since no way I'll shoot .357 from an alloy gun ever again (did once, friend's dad's gun- ouch).

 

[ArmedBear]

Most of the people who think it would be fun to shoot Magnum loads from a two-inch barrel are people who have never done it..

LOL

Agreed, totally (from a lightweight alloy gun, at any rate).

I rented an Airlite .357 when I was considering buying a lightweight snubbie. I shot .357 defensive loads in it -- not as hot as some I shoot regularly in other guns without trouble. The web of my hand, and my wrist, hurt for three days afterward. My first target was a nice group. Within a few cylinders, I had one shot at POA, then a string of shots farther and farther up and over as my hand refused to hold the gun down any more.

With .357s in it, it's not a one-handed gun, and it's hard to control without a really concerted effort -- two things that disqualify it for pocket self-defense in my book.

The price of the .357 was about $700, vs. a bit over $400 for a 642. Considering that the hottest loads I'd shoot seriously in the .357 (say, 158 grains at 1050 fps) are available off-the-shelf in .38 Special +P, there was no reason to pay $300 for the .357 chambers when the guns otherwise perform the same function.

Taurus prices can be a different matter, but I wasn't looking to buy a Taurus.

Note also that I've been playing with some maxed-out .44 Magnum handloads in a 629 Mountain gun lately, and while this can be fatiguing after a while if you're shooting for accuracy, it did not hurt.

That's right: I have been shooting a lightened 4" 629 with full-house 240 grain handloads for fun -- and I think the .357 Airlite is almost unshootable with full-house loads. Yes, I can shoot it, but like I said, one-handed and/or in a compromised position for self-defense? Nope. A wildly off-target shot and a gun recoiling right into my face is what I'd get.

I also have no trouble shooting a .45ACP one-handed at bullseye targets, or just for amusement, until I'm out of ammo. Ditto for a full-size .357 with the hottest handloads I can work up.

Try that lightweight .357 before you buy it, is all I can advise.

 

[archigos]

However, if I ankle or pocket carried I'd want something smaller and lighter weight which would put me into the alloy J frame category which would then necessitate going .38 since no way I'll shoot .357 from an alloy gun ever again (did once, friend's dad's gun- ouch).

I still don't understand how people can possibly carry J-frames in their pockets, unless they're jacket pockets. I have a Desantis Nemesis for mine - its never been used because I don't like the look of the butt of my 637 sticking out of my jeans pocket.

 

[ArmedBear]

I just hiked around in the mountains for a few hours with mine stuck in my right front pocket, no problem (642 in a Nemesis).

I didn't do it in jeans. Jeans are not the best choice for stuffing pockets. Pants made for hiking around in have more room around the hips, to allow for motion in all directions. This also makes the pockets far more useful.

 

[10-Ring]

I can put my 442 in my front pocket & forget about it -- literally. Plus as a belly gun a 38 +P is very effective. I like the size, weight & effectiveness

 

[Phydeaux642]

Why a .38 snubbie?

Because there isn't a .39 snubbie.

I still don't understand how people can possibly carry J-frames in their pockets

I do it all of the time either in a Safariland or Mika pocket holster. It pretty much disappears in casual slacks.

 

[rdrancher]

I still don't understand how people can possibly carry J-frames in their pockets, unless they're jacket pockets. I have a Desantis Nemesis for mine - its never been used because I don't like the look of the butt of my 637 sticking out of my jeans pocket.

I pocket carry a 642 daily in jeans using an Uncle Mikes or Mika holster. On the job, in the office, it's always there. My gun never shows. I have a Nemesis, but don't use it much (ever). The gun actually sits lower in the pocket with the Nemesis as compared to the other two.

Be more selective in your jean selection. Check the pocket depth with your gun and holster. If the grip sits far enough below the top of the pocket to allow the top of the pocket to just fold over the grip, it's a perfect fit. When it comes to jeans, super deep pockets suck as bad as shallow ones - the gun rubs your thigh and prints worse. I don't wear my jeans too tight or too loose - just comfortable.

Benzene - I agree with MCgunner. The SP101 is the lightest snubbie I care to shoot magnum's through, and I do so with mine often. I've tried the Airlites - reminded me of hitting a metal pole with a baseball bat. Years of construction rewarded me with arthritis in my fingers, hands and wrists, and those little unobtainium magnum snubbies just plain hurt. I'll take a sweet little .38 special any day.


rd

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

It's hard to explain. I have a S&W Model 10 snubnose that has a butter smooth action, and feels nicely balanced for a medium frame, and has an appeal of it's own. I have Colts Detective Special and Cobra, and they are also in a class of their own, sizewise for six shots, and handle differently than the S&W, but are much more compact. I only own two .357 Magnums; a S&W 65 Ladysmith, and a Colt Python with 6" barrel. The Model 65 is heavier than the Colts and Model 10, but can deliver a harder blow. Not as nice to carry all day. The Python is a work of art, and can deliver target accuracy and take a deer if I need to. For different tasks, they offer different results and pleasure. I could make do with the Python, or even the Model 65, but then I'd be missing out on the sweet handling of those smaller .38's..........and sometimes they get the nod because of that.

 

[18DAI]

Control, and follow up shots.

A 357 unobtanium snubby weighing 16oz or less, feels like holding a hand grenade, for anything more than three shots, to me.

My 3" 64-3 loaded with Speer Gold Dot 135 grain 38+P is a joy to shoot, and easily controlled. Good round, good revolver, good shot placement = good outcome. YMMV.

 

[searcher451]

Good question. The last .38 snubbie I owned, a Taurus, was the last .38 snubbie I'll ever own. It was uncomfortable to shoot, it was anything but reliable, and it was far from accurate: I'd have been better off throwing rocks down the line.

Sure, I understand that a Taurus is no Colt or S&W. That's true enough. But that gun left such a bad impression on me that if I never see one again, it will still be too soon.

 

[RedLion]

I'm pretty sure that the .357 wastes most of it's energy (or at least your money) in a 2 inch barrel. Look at this site <http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/results.html>
and look at the .38 vs the .357. the .357 is about 100 fps faster with about the same bullet, unless you wanna shoot 158 grn bullets.

 

[Nathanael_Greene]

My S&W Model 37 Airweight is so light that it disappears into a pants pocket very easily, and I can pretty much ignore its presence; can't say the same for my .357 snub. I feel like I have a bowling ball in my pocket. It still has a role, but the .38 is just so much easier to carry.

 

[fastbolt]

Well, there's certainly no denying there's a certain allure to being able to shoot the more powerful .357 Remington Magnum cartridge in the same revolver that chambers the .38 S&W Special.

That's why I've owned more full-size, medium-framed .357 Magnum revolvers than similar guns chambered in .38 Special.

On the other hand, when it comes to 5-shot small-framed revolvers I much prefer shooting Magnum loads through my Ruger SP-101DAO.

Now, I never really thought of myself as 'recoil sensitive'. I mean, back when I was a handloader I used to think that an enjoyable afternoon was one where I fired several hundred stout .44 Magnum loads in my Ruger SA revolvers. I'd often finish the day by shooting the 'light recoiling' .357 Magnum Blackhawk, or a Security-Six with full-power factory ammunition or stout handloads. Like I said, I liked heavy recoiling guns.

However, I think that the optimal balance of a very small, lightweight, accurate & controllable defensive revolver ... for me ... is found in a S&W Airweight rated for the use of .38 Spl +P.

I've handled and fired my fair share of Airlite J-frame Magnums using full-power Magnum loads. I've demonstrated on a number of occasions that I can consistently make fast & accurate doubles & triples on targets with that combination out to 10 yards.

I've also demonstrated to myself that I don't enjoy doing so. I'm not saying it's as bad as trying to stop a runaway train with a baseball bat ... but it's not something I feel like doing very often.

With that said, I ordered a M&P 340 when they were first being released. I didn't buy it just to be able to shoot Magnum loads. I wanted the stronger Scandium aluminum alloy frame, the stainless cylinder and the XS tritium dot front sight. I thought of it as a 'stronger' 642 with a better front sight. I would've bought it if it had only been chambered in .38 Special. As it is, I use some Magnum loads in the mix for training, practice and qualification ... but I carry it loaded with .38 Spl +P.

Just like I do my pair of 642-1's.

Handguns are often considered to be a compromise, overall, when it comes to defensive weapons.

For me, the S&W J-frame chambered in .38 Spl (and especially the newer ones rated for +P) is where I find my example of the quintessential acceptable compromise for a handy lightweight, diminutive, reliable and accurate off-duty (and now retirement) CCW weapon. Especially for those times when carrying one of my larger weapons isn't something I feel like doing.

I have a 37 Airweight in which I only load standard pressure .38 Spl, too.

Some folks find that they prefer to only use standard pressure .38 Spl loads in their 5-shot short-barreled revolvers for reason of felt recoil, accuracy and controllability. That's fine. I can understand that reasoning. They need to do what works best for them and their needs.

I can also understand why not a lot of folks feel like shooting Magnum loads through a 11-13+ ounce itty bitty revolver, too.

Like I said, if I want to shoot Magnum loads through a 5-shot revolver, I'll break my SP-101DAO out of the safe. A steel J-frame chambered in .357 Magnum is tempting, and I may add one to my J-frame collection someday just because I like J-frames. Dunno. Probably still carry one of my Airweights more often, though. The steel J-frame can sit in the safe next to the Ruger SP-101.

Different strokes, though.

The .38 Spl and .38 Spl +P J-frame Airweight is sufficient for my anticipated needs.

Just my thoughts.