Why a revolver.

[Defensory]

No, not all police officers have backup. In THOUSANDS of shooting situations, they are by themselves. And the weapon used by the OVERWHELMING majority of police officers is their SIDEARM---which just happens to be a semi-automatic pistol in virtually every significant police department and law enforcement agency in the country.

Funny, but the police haven't found semi-autos to be unreliable at all. The overwhelming majority of street officers with NYPD, LAPD and other major police departments around the country---have a STRONG PREFERENCE for the semi-auto.

It was the officers in the street who fought "city hall" for years, over the right to carry semi-autos. They were just plain outgunned while carrying revolvers, and officers were dying in shootouts with criminals packing semi-autos.

 

[pinkymingeo]

Police departments (notice I didn't say rocket science labs) are interested in combat weapons. I'm interested in personal defense. There are significant differences in our needs. Combat guys care about "firepower", sending as much lead downrange as possible, in the least amount of time. Collateral damage is part of the nature of combat, so acceptable. Weapons malfunctions will occur in a percentage of encounters, but can be tolerated because most engagements aren't fought solo. We will, almost inevitably, have casualties. In personal defense firepower is second to accuracy, collateral damage is unacceptable, malfunctions are often fatal, and you sure don't want to be a casualty. They have their needs, I have mine.

 

[pps]

I remember reading in the news about an LEO who was involved in a shootout with a perpetrator in the basement of a house. The LEO had a revolver and the perp had a high capacity semi-auto.

When the LEO had to stop and reload, the perp promptly closed distance and shot the LEO several times at near-point blank range, killing him immediately.

This officer could have been equally dead with a malfunctioning semi-auto. There an infinite number of variables that can come into play in a gunfight. To bad he didn't have or use a backup.

If I were a cop, I'd undoubtedly go with a semi-auto. If no departmental restrictions were precluding me, make mine a 10mm with hot rodded DT ammo please. But you can be assured that I'd have something like a 340pd as a BUG somewhere on my person...hell, I'd probably have an LCP or Kahr tucked inside my vest as well.

The reality of MY situation is that I am NOT law enforcement or military. My use is for self defense and handgun hunting. The only semi-auto caliber I'd feel comfortable hunting with would be a 10mm. For handgun hunting I use .357 for game up to and including deer and boar.

For me, and MY general use of a firearms, I like revolvers simply BECAUSE. An affinity for using revolvers does NOT constitute a knock on semi-autos or those who use them.

 

[Scoutsout2645]

I'm LEO, prior Army. Learned to shoot handgun on a 1911 then the Beretta 9mm, I started my Dept. with a S&W .40 and we now carry Glocks in .40. I have put lots of rounds through lots of tubes with lots of guys and 99% of the malfs I've seen are either operator or maintenance issues. Example: I had one LT who I was trying to get through qualifications who was convinced his Beretta was "broken" because it stovepiped every other round. After watching him shoot, then putting 50 rounds through the same gun myself with no problem, we ace bandaged the hell out of his wrists so he would stop limp-wristing it and the action could work properly!

Moral of the story, know YOUR abilities and training before using/choosing a weapon. Personally, I am very comfortable with carrying semi-auto and I prefer the hi-cap and faster reload times it offers. My wife, on the other hand, has a .38/.357 revolver for HD and target shooting for the same reason the LT above should have one. I have 20 yrs of training with random forced malfs using dummy rounds - clearing a failure becomes fast and 2nd nature. She doesn't. I have to be prepared for a protracted firefight against multiple BGs while on the move. She doesn't. For HER, the revolver is the best option for a HD gun.

Then again, HER backup gun is a 12ga pump...

 

[loneviking]

Moral of the story, know YOUR abilities and training before using/choosing a weapon.

And that really says it all! Don't buy a gun on how it looks, or the fancy gadgets that it may include (decocker levers, rails, etc.), buy it because you can use it reliably and accurately. How does that old movie saying go?

A man has got to know his limitations.....

 

[DougDubya]

And with lies and misrepresentations, people wonder why some THR threads are avoided. Why does Defensory even post in the revolver section?

 

[mbt2001]

They were just plain outgunned while carrying revolvers, and officers were dying in shootouts with criminals packing semi-autos.

That is a myth. The whole idea of the police being "outgunned" was a sales campaign to increase their funding. Today, they are a paramilitary organization. With automatic weapons and all kinds of armored carriers. Most of the gun fights are still fought with handguns... So nothing what changed???

If you have the newest coolest, biggest, best toy you when all the gun fights. AS if life were so easy...

 

[doc2rn]

I own several pistols, but only one revolver. My S&W 10-4 just keeps coming back. Even though I may shoot the FNP-9 better, the Smith is just as dependable.

I dont think one is better than the other. They both serve different functions which make them valued members of my tool chest.

 

[DougDubya]

That is a myth. The whole idea of the police being "outgunned" was a sales campaign to increase their funding. Today, they are a paramilitary organization. With automatic weapons and all kinds of armored carriers. Most of the gun fights are still fought with handguns... So nothing what changed???

If you have the newest coolest, biggest, best toy you when all the gun fights. AS if life were so easy...

Colonel Cooper had a saying for this:

"A hardware solution to a software problem."

 

[Defensory]

Posted by Doug:
Colonel Cooper had a saying for this:

"A hardware solution to a software problem."

And anybody who knows anything about Colonel Jeff Cooper, knows that the Colonel was a lifelong staunch advocate of semi-automatic pistols, especially the 1911A1, and the .45 ACP cartridge. Colonel Cooper soundly rejected revolvers for handgun self-defense, as well as law enforcement and military use.

 

[JesseL]

And anybody who knows anything about Colonel Jeff Cooper, knows that the Colonel was a lifelong staunch advocate of semi-automatic pistols, especially the 1911A1, and the .45 ACP cartridge. Colonel Cooper soundly rejected revolvers for handgun self-defense, as well as law enforcement and military use.

Toward the beginning of the handgun revolution, in which we bore a hand, we professed that the optimum personal defensive sidearm was a major caliber self−loading pistol. The second choice was a major caliber revolver; the third a minor caliber self−loader, and in last place the minor caliber revolver.

That doesn't really come across as "soundly rejected" to me.

 

[Stainz]

Wow. The late Col. must have been a bit older than I thought, if he 'bore a hand in the handgun revolution'. If memory serves me, from reading, definitely not from 'being there', the 1896 'Broomhandle' Mauser was one of the first military/LE-use bottom-feeders - and then the 1911, of course. Of course, the military had left the by then down-sized .45 Colt (40 to ~32 gr fff) for the .38 Colt DA, a step down in power, to be sure, as evidenced in the Phillipines. Wasn't that the 'revolution'? The Brits held on through the first WW, preferring our 1917 S&Ws (and Colts) as a means of launching the .45 ACP, a decidedly better round than their .455 Webley. The revolution continues.

I'll opt for second choice - a revolver with a medium power (plus) round. Hey, but what did you expect, this is a revolver forum, duh!

Interesting... the Broomhandle, the S&W .38 Special M&P, and, for giggles, the infamous 1895 Nagant all came into being from 1895-1898 - and the two revolvers were still being 'issued' to LE & some military fifty-odd years ago - the .38s hung on longer - until today, even. That Mauser design held on through the thirties - if you count lesser copies. Find one in use now. I had to get my Nagants in the frey.

Stainz

 

[jad0110]

Cold, hard video evidence of revolver malfunctions:

Ruger SP101 Malfunction:

"This is a brand new Ruger SP101 357 Magnum. I took it out to the range twice and it malfunctioned like this about every 50 rounds. Pull the trigger and it hangs up. If I needed this to defend myself, I'd be dead. I returned the revolver to Cabela's for a refund. Too bad, because it did shoot nicely but what good is a wheelgun that you can't depend on?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsgd5fZJCjU


Revolver Malfunction at a Cowboy Shoot:

"Another stage with a slight revolver malfunction"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xl92P_mVDM

Okay. Doesn't change my small arsenal choices at all. Yes, revolver do break. So do semi autos. Overall, my revolvers have been a bit more reliable, on the whole.

I'm not sure what the two videos are supposed to prove. That revolvers can break? Most of us understand that (and some have experienced breakages), though I acknowledge that some people erroneously believe revolvers can't fail. Or are you inferring that all revolvers are unreliable? About 8 years ago, I knew two different guys while in college, one (a poor broke college student) drove a Chevy Citation (don't remember the model year) and the other a late 90s Toyota Camry. The Citation had been virtually trouble free (he bought it with 100k miles a few years earlier) with about 200k on the odo at the time. The other guy (returning to school to "retool") purchased the Camry new; it blew it's engine a year or so after he bought it with 25k on the odo.

Is this one example enough to call all Citations dependable and all Camry's junk? I sure hope not.

 

[TallPine]

I just wonder how many folks think they need to shoot 4 boxes of ammo through their 6-gun before considering it reliable with that particular ammo only ????

 

[JCMAG]

There are a lot of reasons to shoot one type of gun over another.

But revolvers have sex appeal.

 

[papajohn]

Why a revolver? Simplicity. Reduced likelihood of malfunction. No clearance drills.....you just pull the trigger again. Easy to learn, easy to teach.

Are there down sides? Of Course. There are downsides to EVERYTHING. But I'll not be selling my revolvers anytime soon.

PJ

 

[Hawk]

I just wonder how many folks think they need to shoot 4 boxes of ammo through their 6-gun before considering it reliable with that particular ammo only ????

From the department of oddball exceptions comes the tale of a lot of .44 Mag that refused to extract without resorting to wooden dowels and hammers. It was definitely the ammo - the Anaconda in question had no issues with other ammo.

Admittedly rare but anything that happens to me once may well happen again so I tend to try out a new brand in revolvers as well. FWIW, it was funky brass, per PMC, not overpressure and PMC showed more than the usual interest when it happened - paid frieght to get the remaining ammo back and replaced it with good stuff. It was the regular line - not the Starfire.

To further strain the odds, I've never had my semi seize up while putting my mind at ease with carry ammo.

What're the odds of that? I should've bought a powerball ticket when that happened.

At least the first six went through without a hitch. It was only the reload that could be timed with a sundial.

 

[DougDubya]

Oh... quick note to Defensory.

The video that you allege is about a DA revolver failing at a Cowboy shoot is a single action revolver.

No one is allowed to compete in those matches with a self-cocker.

And yes, people can thumbbust a Peacemaker that quickly, especially with two hands on the gun.

 

[Stainz]

I have had revolver problems. Ruger SRH and early .454 ammo - even Hornady - was in soft brass - it would take on the RMS roughness of the chambers - required knocking them out singly. My .45 Colt Ruger Redhawk's extractor would jump the small .45 Colt rims, making reloading a two-handed/time-consuming affair. My Ruger .32 H&RM SP101 required a lot of effort to empty the spent cases - the chamber ID was at the max extreme - and even mild loads would expand the brass, causing drag.

Of course, a .454 Casull is a true elephant gun - and I never was accosted by one... it did work, even if it is a poor choice for personal or home defense. Same with the hefty .45 Colts & the RH. Actually, the .32 SP101 isn't the best choice for a home defender either - unless you are under attack by Zombie ferrets. I did find the best solution to my revolver faults - I got rid of the Rugers - and became S&W territory. I have two 625MGs in .45 Colt that have never had the ejector jump rims. My solution to my revolver problems worked for me.

Stainz

 

[V1K1NG0]

I agree with most of you all. I have hashed this debate out before and for me the answer is simple: carry what you would stake your life and those around you on because if your wrong then you or them could be dead. If it's a revolver great. If it's a auto great. Learn all you can about it but most of all learn what you can do with it because in the end that is all that matters. Nobody can answer for you.

My primary carry piece is a SP-101 w/3 inch barrel (carried in coat pocket). I do my best to stay out of harm's way and carry this as my last resort. Never had to use it for social work and pray I never do.

Yet, to ease my mind from thinking that one day I'll use it and run out of lead when the chips are down I have my Glock 19 w/2 spare mags as my backup gun (carried on belt under coat). Friends always ask me why I dont carry the 19 in the pocket and the 101 on the belt. I always tell them , If your life depended on it, you would want me to shoot the 101 first. Not because it is nostalgic, or because some say the cartridge in it is so powerful or even that it looks nice but because I am that good with it.

When the time comes we arent playing for fun, we play for keeps.

So if another person feels the same way about their 1911 or XD etc etc. I wont hold it against them because in the end they are the only one that will have to answer for their choice and the results of it.

Practice, practice, practice. Then practice some more.

 

[Evyl Robot]

Hmmm...

I hate to say it but I'm actually more accurate a shot with a high-quality bottom-feeder than I am a revolver. In fact, out of seven guns I shot at my last range session, my carry gun was my worst. But, darn it - the revolver is just so hot! My solution? I'm going to focus the next several range sessions to the one gun to see how that makes me improve.

--Michael

 

[johnnylaw53]

Been carrying for 30 something years began as an M.P. for 4 years and been a deputy for 28 never really had any problems with the old 45 early in my deputy job we carried revolvers only. then went to issued weapons and began with the beretta now carry a sig. For open carry a good semi auto is hard to beat same is true for a night stand gun. What I have found when it come to smaller concealed type weapons the small auto just seem to have a few more problem then a small frame revolver. Have tried quite a few small autos and seem to always go back to the snub took it lot of time and money for me to firger this outbut i'm back to the 642 now which is where i will stay

be safe

 

[Phil DeGraves]

I own, carry and love both. Can't we all get along?

 

[Fishman777]

Give the guy a break...

The guy the posted this thread mentioned in his story that the gun "jammed" on the first shot. It probably didn't "jam", he probably had a FTF. If this is the case, the ammo was more to blame than the gun or the operator, but the fact remains, that with a revolver, the cop wouldn't have had to do much to "chamber" a new round. He could have pulled the trigger and shot the bad guy. Don't disregard this story because the wrong technical term was used. The bottom line was the gun did not fire and he was shot while chambering a new round into the autoloader.

No gun is going to work 100% of the time, revolvers included. In terms of reliability, I'd personally prefer to depend on a good quality, well maintained revolver than any autoloader on this planet. People talk about how reliable certain autoloaders are. I'm sure they are absolutely great guns, but if you put that gun into a novice shooters hands, my guess is that the novice could find a way to induce a malfunction. If you're not in an ideal situation, and under stress you fire off a shot without a good grip, you can limp wrist just about any autoloader into a malfunction. Glock and XDs have rock solid reputations for reliability, but they aren't that difficult to limp wrist if you try hard enough. Please don't view this as Glock or XD bashing, because I happen to like both of those brands a lot.

 

[Defensory]

"The officer turned and emptied his revolver at the suspects. His shots struck suspect "A" in the chest and stomach causing him to fall to the floor. Suspect "B" was shot in the left side and the left wrist. The officer's other two shots missed the suspects. Suspect "A" regained his feet and began firing the shotgun. His shots killed the officer, who was trying to reload, and wounded several patrons."

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1141090

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