Why are Colt Officer and Police revolvers worth so little?

[Jackal]

Perusing sale sites and my local shops, I often see Colt Officers Specials, Officers Match, Police models, etc for sale at Taurus prices. When a Python sells for $2500, why does an Officers Special (supposedly the precursor to the Python) sell for $350? It just seems odd that these are so underappreciated.

 

[SwampWolf]

A fair question, Jack, and I have no answer. The upside, of course, is that a lot of nice (non-Python) Colt revolvers can still be had at a decent price-though this is changing all too quickly. I paid $325.00 for a Colt Officers Model Special in excellent condition (but no box) back in 2002. In 2007, I paid $510.00 for a Colt Cobra in mint condition, including the box and manual. At a recent gun show, Colt revolvers in excellent condition of the same ilk were fetching a couple of hundred dollars more each. Get 'em while you can!

 

[bannockburn]

Jackal

Well the first two things that come to mind in regards to older Colt double action revolvers are spare parts for repairs and finding a qualified gunsmith who knows how to properly work on them. Both are in somewhat short supply. You might want to check out www.coltfever.com/GUNSMITHING.html for some more insights into the matter.

 

[GBExpat]

I think that one of the primary issues with the old Colts relates to Timing.

They are designed so that the pawl pushes the cylinder firmly against the bolthead prior to firing. Over time, this wears a notch into the bolthead, your alignment suffers, your bullets start impacting the side of the forcing cone ... and then you find yourself searching for one of the rare, competent Colt gunsmiths ... who then must source even rarer replacement parts.

Many old Colts that are acquired start out with the Timing Issue (among other things like EndShake and condition) so some folks tend to undervalue them.

 

[Jackal]

I mean, with a "beater" Python worth $1500, this mechanically sound/holster worn Officers Special .38spl should be worth at least $500. The level of quality compared to a modern revolver is insane. To make something like this nowadays would cost an absurd amount of $$$$.

 

[UncleEd]

The timing issue is one thing but other than the Python, Diamondback and
iterations of the Detective Special, the other Colt revolvers waned in popularity by the 1970s.

Police weren't buying many Colts compared to Smith Model 19s, 15s, etc.
The largest PDs, i.e. LA and NY, were Smith strongholds. And Colt was
busy making M16s.

So no "cult" status ever arose for the Police Specials, the Officer's Model which was once a strong part of the NRA three-gun bullseye competitions.

When I got into buying revolvers, I don't remember seeing many Colts in gun cases other than the revered Python. Oh, yes, and Rugers and some Dan Wessons. No Colts.

A side note: If it hadn't been for TV Westerns' popularity,
the Colt SAA would have never been brought back. It had been
discontinued. And now, of course, SAAs still sell to a select group.

 

[Old Fuff]

There are a number of reasons, which have been touched on. Then most of our younger buyers have little interest in any revolvers. That, and as time goes by many aren't interested in the company's pistols either.

The hand ejector revolvers made between 1908 to the early 2000's that are regularly used need to be routinely tuned up, and the gunsmith's that did it are largely gone - or going. The problem with parts is that they were originally hand fitted to a particular gun, so salvaged one's won't always work in another one - nor can they be retrofitted to do so.

But setting aside the gloom and doom, I'm not saddened that in an era when handgun prices are going through the roof the models that don't have a cult following are often very affordable. With gentle treatment they will last a long time, and often can produce groups that make those made by some more popular guns look like they were fired with a shotgun.

So count you're blessing and go forth...

 

[GBExpat]

And for those mechanically-inclined & patient individuals who take the time to actually understand the old Colt clockwork, if you can find replacement parts (I have had luck with Numrich) the hand-fitting process is not that daunting a task ... so locating a Colt gunsmith is not always a requirement.

 

[WVGunman]

I mean, with a "beater" Python worth $1500, this mechanically sound/holster worn Officers Special .38spl should be worth at least $500. The level of quality compared to a modern revolver is insane. To make something like this nowadays would cost an absurd amount of $$$$.

Perhaps the Python's price is inflated, not the other way around?

 

[Elkins45]

I will add a factor that hasn't been mentioned that I think plays a large part: the older Colts are chambered in 38 special. Look at the difference in what people are paying for Smith 19's and 66's as opposed to the 38 versions. People just don't want 38 revolvers except for belly guns or specialized target pieces.

 

[wbbh]

They were sold to police departments by the hundreds and thousands.

 

[JC111]

The non snake Colt revolvers don't have the following. I collect them for that very reason. Also I focus on 38 Special models because they tend to have had a more sedate exsistence whereas the 357 Magnums tend to be a bit more worn. People seem to think that if they have a Magnum then they have to shoot full power loads through them without exception. I purchased this beautiful pre-WWII Colt Officer's Model Target in November 2011 for $530.00. It's one heck of a tack-driver. The old Colt DA revolvers are excellent examples of craftsmanship and are pieces of history.


Here is an Official Police that was made in 1936. It purchased it in 2013 for a mere $400. Next to it a well used Smith & Wesson Model 10 Heavy Barrel had a sticker price of $550. I like Smiths, but it was a no-brainer for me on that day. Holster wear, but clean and still very sound mechanically. It might not be sexy to many, but to me it screams Jimmy Cagney, Bogart, G-Men and Dillinger. How is that not colorful? As to the answer for your question. Beats me. They're perceived as old, obsolete and long ago fell out of fashion. Times change I guess is as good of an answer as any.

 

[evan price]

For the past few years I've been picking up older non-snake Colts for under $300, in shooter condition. Army Specials, Official Police, Police Positives, as long as you don't want mint original condition, and don't mind some disassembly, cleaning and adjusting, you get a very nice 38 special you'll be able to shoot all you want and pass on to your kids.
Most recently is a 1922 Army Special 38 in original nearly unfired condition, only flaw is a thumbprint that surface rusted right on top of the prancing pony. It will leave a discoloration when I clean it.
And shipped to my door via my C&R FFL, I have about $316 in it.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

The real question is, why are Pythons so ridiculously over valued? I attended an auction the other day. There were a bunch of Pythons. They all sold in the $2500 range. That is crazy. For a Smith to be priced that high it has to be really special. Like maybe a Registered Magnum. I know a TV program has contributed to the silly Python prices, but they were expensive even before that.

On the other hand, regular run of the mill Colts are still reasonably priced. Here is a group photo of a bunch of Police Positive Specials. The newest one of the group, with the four inch barrel, I bought way back in the 1970s and I don't remember what I paid for it. Probably something under $200. The one in the middle is actually a 32-20 Police Positiive Special from 1926 that I bought at the same auction for $600. Yeah, technically the 22 Rimfire Target model on the right is not a Police Positive Special, but I wanted to include it in the group photo.





Here is a nice 38 Army Special (forerunner of the Official Police) from 1921.





A pair of New Service revolvers, 45 Colt from 1906 at the top 44-40 from 1907 at the bottom.




I was never really interested in the Python, if I had come across one cheap I would have grabbed it, but not at the crazy prices they are commanding today.

 

[Jackal]

Nice collection Driftwood. I think I'm going to buy every low priced (most of them) pre Python Colt revolver I find.

 

[shafter]

I will add a factor that hasn't been mentioned that I think plays a large part: the older Colts are chambered in 38 special. Look at the difference in what people are paying for Smith 19's and 66's as opposed to the 38 versions. People just don't want 38 revolvers except for belly guns or specialized target pieces.

This is a good point. Funny how people pay a premium for a 357's when all they'll ever shoot are 38's.

I find that they make great guns for teaching beginners.

 

[Jim K]

A good part of the Python hype is due to Colt itself. They built it up to be the absolutely perfect revolver, the best of the best, perfection in every way. What it actually was was a hand-tuned and hand polished revolver, basically no different than an ordinary OMM with a "tuneup" job. (I "tuned" ordinary Colts; it is not much of a job, really, but Colt had the advantage of being able to do selective fitting, while my parts selection was limited. Many Pythons were ever-polished, with corners rounded, but that is apparently what Python customers wanted.)

Also, Colt, even at that time (late 1950's), was falling behind S&W. Their revolver design was antique and their plans for an across-the-board update were progressing very slowly, even by Colt standards. So the Python was a perfect product - little real additional cost, but lots of PR hype. When they finally got some pretty decent new revolvers into production, the sales weren't there. So they huffed and puffed and clothed themselves in the cloak of hypocrisy, pretending that they never wanted to be in the business of making "evil" revolvers. (S&W went down the same path for a while be it noted.)

Jim

 

[kBob]

GBExpat (and anyone with suggestions)

Despite my best and pitiful efforts I could find nothing on line about tuning a Colt revolver.

I generally don't ask people to tell me where to go as I always get the same "hot" answer, but can you direct me to some internet address that can help me work on a Police Positive Special that is so out of time it is only correct twice a day?

Also a source of parts that are actually in stock ( so not GunParts Corp/Numerich)?

-kBob

 

[Old Fuff]

I generally don't ask people to tell me where to go as I always get the same "hot" answer, but can you direct me to some internet address that can help me work on a Police Positive Special that is so out of time it is only correct twice a day?

Easy answer, but it depends a little bit on when your particular revolver was made, because over the years Colt did make some mostly minor changes that affected certain parts.

But anyway, Go to Brownells (www.Brownells.com) or Amazon and buy a copy of:

The Colt Double Action Revolvers - A Shop Manual, Vol 1. by Jerry Kuhnhausen, that covers the Police Positive Special among others.

Now I will reveal a closely held secret for which I usually charge $5,000 but is free today, but only to THR members.

Take the revolver, open the cylinder, and make ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT NONE OF THE CHAMBER ARE LOADED - WITH ANYTHING.

Then close and latch the cylinder. Turn the gun around while holding it in one hand, and while looking straight at the muzzle, hold the cylinder with the thumb and forefinger of the other hand and see if you can wiggle the crane away from a tight fit to the frame. If you can, solving the timing issues may not require new parts.

I have put out-of-time Colt's back into perfect condition with nothing but a hammer.

With a plastic or rubber head of course.

 

[GBExpat]

... can you direct me to some internet address that can help me work on a Police Positive Special that is so out of time it is only correct twice a day?

Also a source of parts that are actually in stock ( so not GunParts Corp/Numerich)?

Sorry, kBob, but I have no easy answers to share. Hopefully, someone else will.

========================

After being bitten by the .32-20 Bug in early 2015 I acquired a Colt Police Positive Special on Gunbroker. Being ignorant of such revolvers, I did not know the correct questions to ask prior to deciding to bid on the piece. I, to a great degree, completed said educational gaps with that pistol.

My Colt PPS was badly out of time. The source of the problem was a deep step worn into the bolthead.

Numrich was out of the Colt PPS bolts so I checked back every few days ... and finally got double lucky; they came back in-stock and what they sent to me was actually usable. I have used Numrich for parts for about 15 years and have found that as often as not the first one that they ship is in poor condition but the replacement is in very good shape.

After my initial disassembly & cleaning, I spent a lot of time familiarizing myself with the internals and their relationships. The fact that the tail of the bolt rides along a little ramp hidden on the blindside of the rebound lever makes fitting a replacement even more interesting.

After receiving the replacement bolt, I waited until I was in the correct mindset and dove in. I had decided that Patience and a Light Touch was going to be the right way to go. I was right.

That Saturday afternoon I reassembled that pistol, checked function, studied the key surfaces and then disassembled the pistol and removed another tiny bit of metal many times ... and, finally, I was done. I fully reassembled the pistol, checked function and then carefully checked the timing. Just right.

My 2nd bolt replacement, a couple of months ago on a Colt Official Police, was much easier and took a LOT less time. Part of this I attribute to my familiarity with the bits.

Good Luck!

 

[styles]

Most snake Owners never shoot them either. Total waste of money.

 

[Paul7]

The non snake Colt revolvers don't have the following. I collect them for that very reason. Also I focus on 38 Special models because they tend to have had a more sedate exsistence whereas the 357 Magnums tend to be a bit more worn. People seem to think that if they have a Magnum then they have to shoot full power loads through them without exception. I purchased this beautiful pre-WWII Colt Officer's Model Target in November 2011 for $530.00. It's one heck of a tack-driver. The old Colt DA revolvers are excellent examples of craftsmanship and are pieces of history.


Here is an Official Police that was made in 1936. It purchased it in 2013 for a mere $400. Next to it a well used Smith & Wesson Model 10 Heavy Barrel had a sticker price of $550. I like Smiths, but it was a no-brainer for me on that day. Holster wear, but clean and still very sound mechanically. It might not be sexy to many, but to me it screams Jimmy Cagney, Bogart, G-Men and Dillinger. How is that not colorful? As to the answer for your question. Beats me. They're perceived as old, obsolete and long ago fell out of fashion. Times change I guess is as good of an answer as any.

Love the checkered cylinder latch on these.

I also don't know why they aren't more popular. The action on the old Troopers, Officers Model Match, and even Official Police can be as good or better than a Python. They make a Ruger seem like a Highpoint in comparison. Personally, once you get used to the Colt 'bank-vault' lockup, any other revolver just seems sloppy. I believe Colt still does work on some of these old guns, and has some parts or can tell you where to get parts. The average shooter isn't going to shoot them that much to cause a problem. Obviously if you shoot a lot or competitively that's another story.

As far as people not liking the .38, anyone who thinks it isn't a good self defense round is welcome to stand in front of one.

 

[HoosierQ]

I keep hearing about these inexpensive used revolvers. I see the OP is from Washington. Here in Indiana, as far as I have ever seen, you'd never see any gun in this thread anywhere for less than $500...or more.

So around here anyway, the "forget that and just get yourself a nice, cheap used revolver" is no advice at all. A decent used revolver around here is on par with a brand new Glock.

 

[Paul7]

I keep hearing about these inexpensive used revolvers. I see the OP is from Washington. Here in Indiana, as far as I have ever seen, you'd never see any gun in this thread anywhere for less than $500...or more.

So around here anyway, the "forget that and just get yourself a nice, cheap used revolver" is no advice at all. A decent used revolver around here is on par with a brand new Glock.

Check Gunbroker online, you will find lots of them. Couple years ago I bought a pristine pre-war Official Police for $400. Unreal quality.

 

[popeye]

Quote: "I keep hearing about these inexpensive used revolvers. I see the OP is from Washington. Here in Indiana, as far as I have ever seen, you'd never see any gun in this thread anywhere for less than $500...or more.

So around here anyway, the "forget that and just get yourself a nice, cheap used revolver" is no advice at all. A decent used revolver around here is on par with a brand new Glock."

As an Indiana resident myself I can totally agree with this statement. I've got 3 Cobras (all shooters) and 1 nice DS. I'd really a couple 5-5.5" Colt I, E frames but the prices are outrageous around here. Having experienced a couple GB Colt revolvers with serious mechanical problems, I'm reluctant to buy a Colt revolver without holding it in my hand first.