Why are our weapon calibers shrinking?

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I've always heard that a single 00 pellet is equal to a single round from a .32 ACP pistol.

Epic thread fail.

I was curious about what people had to say about it and how it go to where we are. I like the concept of small but "zippy" rounds but because of the research that is available to us today. That didn't come out of thin air.

What gets my goat about this thread is everyone was quick to twist my words about the 22LR. Yet everyone is singing the praises of a glorified 22 magnum. There is something wrong with this picture.

.22 Magnum isn't as powerful as 5.7 x 28, that line is getting old and has been shown to be false.

 

[NG VI]

I think he might have been referring to all the advice that a 5.56 rifle is an excellent, probably best-suited weapon for both home defense and combat use.

 

[PT92]

Personally speaking, it's CHEAP I can shoot .22 all day long in both hand/long gun without breaking the bank. For serious purposes, of course I rely on larger calibers (though I do use a Beretta 21A in .22lr for BUG)..

-Cheers

 

[goon]

If the 5.7 isn't just a glorified .22 Magnum, the 5.56 certainly isn't.

The fact is that lighter smaller rounds have a lot going for them. If they work, and they seem to, why not? Why carry more weight than you need to? Even during the French and Indian War, those could could carry a smaller lighter weapon than a full size musket often did. Robert Rogers required his men to have sixty rounds of powder and ball ready to go, and sixty rounds of .75 caliber ball is freaking heavy!

Nothing against a load of 12 gauge buck or a slug, but if an AR-15 works for home defense but can still reach out to 300 yards, I don't see why anyone would be angered by saying that.

 

[Skribs]

527, I'm about to put this line in my signature, because of how often it's come up lately:

"If the 5.7 is a glorified .22 magnum, then the .357 magnum is a glorified .380 ACP."

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Appreciate it, I'm all for stopping the flow of misinformation about firearms.

 

[Skribs]

When did you put the one about the XD in your sig?

 

[VT Deer Hunter]

There were advances in a lot of things that made it possible over time.

Ignition method (flintlock, caplock, etc)
Smooth bore vs rifled bore
More accurate and reproducible machining capability, leading to truer bores
Minie ball ammo
And yes, powder refinement

Yah and each time it makes the guns more reliable, safe and shoot everytime. Except dud rounds you occationaly get.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

When did you put the one about the XD in your sig?

I think a few weeks ago, I figured I would be nicer to Glock guys. After all my sig line was "Glocks, simple guns for simple people."

 

[Skribs]

Which is ironic because the XD is very close to a Glock...

I guess I'm a simple person, though. I wanted to make a picture of a 5.7 cartridge yelling "I WAS IN THE POOL!"

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

It didn't apply to all Glock owners, just those fanboys that claim 1911s and other guns with safeties and such horrible because you could forget about them and claim they are junk. XD doesn't have the same fanbase and it is a different gun that shares similar features.

One kid claimed that I'm inexperienced simply because I don't like the way a Glock feels in my hand and that since people who "know more" and are better paid like them. Just to be clear, it's not Glock owners but those fanboys that feel as though they have to shove their "perfection" in everyone's faces.

 

[One_Jackal]

This thread is riddled with false statements. To start off with the common caliber used by the military and law enforcement is a 5.56. The difference between a .223 and 5.56 is barrel pressure. The 5.56 has a much higher barrel pressure than a .223. It's not safe to shoot a 5.56 in guns labeled .223. However, a 5.56 can be reloaded and safely shot in a .223.

To protect innocent bystanders fragmenting bullets would be required in an urban environment. The FBI recommends 18” of penetration for law enforcement rounds. You can't get 18” of penetration out of a fragmenting bullet. The reason 18” of penetration is recommended is most attackers assume a “blade stance.” The best shot one might get is in the shoulder or in the ribs from the side.

Shooting 30 rounds in 10 seconds is not very considerate of innocent bystanders, such as your neighbors, wife and children.

A range of 300 yards is required for self defense? I am quite sure if you shoot someone 300 yards away you will be convicted of murder, even in TX.

Weight of ammunition for home defense? I don't see how weight of ammunition matters in home defense, unless you live in the Superdome.

I have owned a .223 for over 20 years. It's great for killing coyotes, crows and paper targets. The .223 passes through a self healing plastic target so fast it won't spin or even move when you hit it. Yet a 5.56/.223 supposed to have enough knock down power to protect you from an armed attacker?

Given all the facts above I will stick with my shotgun for home defense.

One other thing, I have a signature now.

 

[Sam1911]

The difference between a .223 and 5.56 is barrel pressure.

Well, A difference is chamber pressure, yes. There are others, such as the length of the leade, headspace, and thickness of most brass.

It's not safe to shoot a 5.56 in guns labeled .223.

Well, not exactly true. There are some manufacturers who label their barrels .223, even though they have 5.56Nato or Wylde (or other mixed-use) chambers. Have to check with the manufacturer to be sure.

However, a 5.56 can be reloaded and safely shot in a .223.

Yes, a 5.56NATO case can be used to work up a safe load for a .223 Rem. rifle. Case thickness differences will require that you don't use the same load data.

Shooting 30 rounds in 10 seconds is not very considerate of innocent bystanders, such as your neighbors, wife and children.

If one was to NEED to shoot 30 rds in a defensive situation, it would seem that being considerate of the auditory discomfort of bystanders would take rather a back seat to whatever dire need you were addressing, no? If the job isn't finished with 10 rounds, should one stop firing so as not to damage one's wife's hearing?

They probably won't be real comfortable after you fire 15 out of your handgun or 9 out of your shotgun, either.

The .223 passes through a self healing plastic target so fast it won't spin or even move when you hit it. Yet a 5.56/.223 supposed to have enough knock down power to protect you from an armed attacker?

No, I don't think so. "Knock down power" is a worse myth than "stopping power." No basis in reality. NO shoulder-fired firearm really knocks down the target. Cause them to fall? Yes if the right structures are struck. But not knock them down.

One other thing, I have a signature now.

Hey that's pretty funny! Can I come over to YOUR house and tell you how much I hate IT?

...

Anyway, question is answered, and we've drifted into yet another 5.7 debate. Surely one of those is more than enough.