Why are the major manufacturers not making new 32ACP's anymore

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Hunter2011

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I know they are not recommended for SD and their ammo are just as expensive as 9mm rounds for example.
My opinion is just that many people carry .22 for SD and they feel well armed with it. So how can we all say 32ACP is not worth it? .32ACP is better than .22, even if it is not a lot.
If I look at my Taurus PT709 9mmP. I think its a great size, very concealable and very accurate for its size, and adjustable sights. Won't a pistol like this in .32 ACP make a lot more people carry .32 instead of .22? I think it should be great because some people can't handle the recoil, then a .32 PT709 could be something great.
I see that a Beretta Pico in 9mm is only 18mm thin. Just imagine how thin and ultra concealable they can make a .32ACP! I think a 15mm thick Taurus or something with fully adjustable sights and a 3.0-3.5'' barrel can be a great companion for SD. Especially for people that are recoil sensitive, like my mother for example.
They do make pocket .32's, but they are so short and with stupid fixed sights, their accuracy are just poor.
Can there be a market for something like this?
 
This thread will likely degrade into a flame war once the Caliber Bullys get wind of it but I'll play until that happens...I adore .32 ACP. It's not "The Ultimate Manstopper" but I find it adequate. The ballistics between it and the .380 are painfully similar and the .32 is easier to control in rapid fire.

You know that the Pico is slated to come with a .32 ACP drop in option, right? It's the main reason I am interested and waiting on the Pico and will buy one.

The answer to the .32 being squeezed to the back burner is the "Bigger is Better" mentality - for some reason the .32 is seen as useless here in the US but has been used successfully in other places since it's conception. Personally? I believe that now that we have some type of concealed carry in all 50 states and many people are carrying or want to train and carry we will see a revival of smaller .380, .32, and .22 pistols as this is what many people who are "casual" gun owners will want as they face the reality of carrying for SD.

In my local area, .380 is pretty much outselling everything else. 40 Glock 42's snapped up so fast they couldn't get them off the truck.

The local GS owner is a .32 lover/shooter as well and I have heard him interject in the gun store discussions about this caliber and it's suitability for SD. We hear it all the time - .32 can't stop an attack, it has been known to bounce right off a leather jacket or someones skull, "I know a guy who was shot with a .32 and didn't even know he was shot!" and that kind of thing. I handload .32 for my Colt 1903's and get 17"+ of penetration out of a 75 gr. flatnose lead bullet running 1050 fps.

I have done a lot of personal testing and paid a ballistics lab to test my rounds and others. Trust me - if someone can walk away from a chest full of .32 ACP he could walk away from a chest full of 9mm just as easily. I hope we see a revival of the .32 in pocket size pistols but it will be a few more years I think.

Or maybe not. The .32 is underpowered and placement as a fight stopper is critical as is multiple well place follow ups. It has a lot of prejudice stacked up against it to overcome as well as the "I can get a 9mm pistol in the same size and weight gun so why would I get a .32?" concept to overcome. Some folks will not understand that many folks (most folks) can't control the teeny, tiny 9mm and more than they can control the teeny tiny .380's. I hope we see a revival but I think the prejudice is very deep against it.

VooDoo
 
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^^^Excellent post.

I've shot a Walther in .32acp (PP?), and it banged my gong hard enough. Remember rule #1, have a gun.
 
Simple market demand in my opinion. While you may like the .32acp, many people don't and aren't buying it.

From the point of a manufacturer/retail owner it makes perfect sense. Make 380/9mm/.40/.45 in massive quantities you know will fly off the shelf, or spend precious time and resources for a niche market. Lets be honest, for every .32acp there are probably 10,000 of any of the popular cartridges.
 
Why can't folks just make their case without feeling the need to knock the other persons case or wring their hands and say oh no not again? Just state your case politely and let the readers decide.

I carry anything from a small .32 ACP to a full sized .45 ACP, and I am comfortable with my choices. :)
 
It's better than a 22 and a 25 not as good as a 380. I'm 64 and I enjoy shooting 45acp if you like 32acp that's fine. Most "experts" consider 380 the minimum so I guess that's why it's so popular. 32 just got pushed aside by the wave of small 380's made now.
 
My Bad.....I should have avoided the conversation. I get "editorial" about the .32 ACP and have been shouted down one too many times about why there are not more new .32 pistols being offered.

In the group I hang with who are actively seeking concealed carry solutions by shooting each others guns and sharing experiences and nurturing the less experienced or novice members virtually all of them have some member of their family who could use more options. Almost all of them have shot and get along fine with my 95 year old Colt 1903 and shoot it "right out of the box" much better than any guns in larger calibers that have been touted as "the best solution" for them by some very credible instructors. Most inexperienced and many experienced shooters simply cannot handle larger calibers and will never handle them no matter how much they train or pay for qualified instruction to bring them "up to speed".

There is a huge market for .32 and .380 caliber pistols. There are few new models being offered in .32 because manufacturers do not believe this to be the case and feel that money spent developing higher end pistols in this caliber may result in a loss.

I apologize if I set the wrong "tone" for the conversation and invited undue emotion regarding suitability of the .32. I would like to see more pistols offered in this caliber with longer barrels and decent sights and higher mag capacity and will buy them where I find them.

VooDoo
 
I have several .32s and my wife likes her KelTec for pocket carry in the summer. BTW, posts by VooDoo and Hunter were not, in my opinion, argumentative or attempting to convince anyone to do anything. Legitimate questions and reasoned response. I agree that a solid .32 with decent sights from a major manufacturer would find a market niche. Do I see it happening? One would hope, but I'm not optimistic for the reasons cited by VooDoo.
 
There is a huge market for ... .380 caliber pistols.
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This part I agree with. If you need a micro/mini carry gun, or a low-recoiling carry gun, .380 is the commonly known answer to the need.

... .32 and ...
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This part, not so much. The round fell out of the public eye pretty much comprehensively by the end of the first half of the 20th century. Just semi-redundant and "too little of a good thing." It may be possible that there are folks who CAN shoot a .32 well but CAN'T handle the raw power of a .380, but surely there aren't many, and not enough to be counted as a "huge market."

The thing is, in a competitive environment, markets that exist are filled. It's a natural process. If there's something that folks will buy, someone will step up to make it. The fact that this has not happened in a major way for the .32 Auto says something worth noting. Yes, A market exists, and yes the manufacturers meet that need. (After all, there ARE a few .32 Auto guns made, and you can buy new manufactured ammo for them.) But there isn't a huge untapped sales potential there.

Manufacturers constantly try to figure out what will sell and how they can get people to buy it. The fact that they've not seen fit to expand their .32 lines is very solid evidence that there are not a whole lot of frustrated potential .32 Auto buyers out there.

There are few new models being offered in .32 because manufacturers do not believe this to be the case and feel that money spent developing higher end pistols in this caliber may result in a loss.
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Exactly. And they pay a lot of money to figure that sort of thing out. It isn't a lack of faith, vision, or understanding on their part(s) which makes them not ramp up .32 Auto production, but quite the opposite. Market research and analysis, a study of history and the wants and whims of the buying public.

They'd build ANYTHING they found proof that folks would really buy (in numbers great enough to justify the expense of engineering, development, and manufacturing it).
 
I enjoy the 7.65 Browning in kit gun sized formats, not micro minis . The reason is I think they are great bunny busters and whack small game like large racoons harder than .22RF pistols. They also make a superb slaughter gun for live stock or downed deer.
 
When I try to answer the question " Why are the major manufacturers not making new 32ACP's anymore", I have to attribute it to a general trend among gun writers to recommend against the caliber for SD and what was IMO, a flawed work on the subject of terminal ballistics that gave the caliber very bad ratings for effectiveness.

Do I think getting shot with a .32 FMJ does the same thing as getting shot in the same spot with a full-power 10mm JHP ?

No, I don't.

But some .32 ACP rounds do punch 12" deep holes.

I think another thing that happens when gun writers speak negatively about a caliber, it changes the types of guns that are produced for it.

The .380 AUTO obviously would perform better out of a longer barrel, but in the U.S. it is mostly relegated to 3" barreled pistols. The argument is "if you're going to go through all the trouble of getting a 7"-8" pistol weighing between 22 and 28 ounces why fire 380 out of it - GET A 9mm !!!"

Then you're looking at a very small segment of the market, people who have trouble with 9mm recoil, and would like to use something with less recoil, but then you have manufacturers who make their 380s direct blowback...

The .32 would benefit from being shot out of a larger gun, but no manufacture would make them because the same argument applies - "If you're getting a gun THAT BIG, why not at least shoot 380 AUTO out of it?"
 
My local Walmart has several boxes on Winchester 32acp on the shelf as we speak


Oops, you mean new guns CHAMBERED in 32acp
 
I agree that the growth in .380 handguns (now the Glock will drive it even harder) has probably suppressed the .32ACP market. Even I swapped .32 pistols for .380s.

I also understand the desire to see a .32 with the features of a full sized semiauto, but I have to point out that .32 is and has been a concealed handgun round intended for close in defense and the features of a full sized handgun may add undue weight and complications to a very simple point and shoot pistol that's for bad breath range.
 
Furncliff said:
The rear sight is adjustable, and the sights are all in all... adequate. The gun is accurate enough for an in your face kind of SD gun that an elderly person might need and would be easier to use for someone with strength issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGkbnV_OyY0
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I stand to be corrected about the sights. Sorry, I did not look at this pistol good enough before posting.
 
I know they are not recommended for SD and their ammo are just as expensive as 9mm rounds for example.

.32ACP is better than .22, even if it is not a lot.

Based on what data? Emergency room experience and real life shooting show the 22 is deadly inside the human body as it bounces around like a ping pong ball.

The .32 is underpowered and placement as a fight stopper is critical as is multiple well place follow ups.

I agree with this statement. I have a C&R license and the surplus 32 autos I get are oversize for the round. There should be a balance between size of the gun and the round. Why carry a Makarov in 32 when the 380 has more stopping power and much better selection of ammo in the same size package.

There is a huge market for .32 and .380 caliber pistols.

In the last Banic of 2009 the cartridge in most demand was the 380. I first I was little surprised by this until I got to thinking how many 380’s are resting in night stands and are rarely shot.

Now that I bashed the 32 ACP I like and carry it….in a Seacamp LWS. But it has a very limited and specific role. It slips into my front pants pocket as easily as my car keys. BUT…and a BIG BUTT…I respect it’s limitations and know the limits of it’s effectiveness. It is for use in a very close and personal attack where the distance is within 3’. Further out I need to be retreating as fast as possible.
 
I thought about this question and the sentence "Ummm, yeah, that's a good question, because I for one would not want to stand in front of any gun." So then it made me wonder why I normally carry a .45 and feel that that is what I need to carry. In fact 38 Special +P is the least powerful cartridge I ever carry.

I think the reason there is not a big market for .32 acp carry guns can be summed up in two words:

animals, and drugs

An aggressive animal or a predator does not know that a gunshot and the pain involved can be lethal if not tended to. So if one really means you harm you, it may keep coming. So I want a powerful round to put it down quickly. Even if you don't want to kill an animal, you really should. If things have degenerated to the point where an animal feels treatened by you, and feels the need to attack, and you feel the need to shoot, you don't want to allow a hurt animal to wander off and hurt someone else.

On the human side, there seems to be more and more meth and other drug fueled crimes being commited. Drugs alter perception, judgement, and pain reception. If I shoot in self defnse, it's because I have no other option left. That means I want a debilitating wound inflicted on my attacker asap in order to stop the attack.

A larger diameter, heavier, and/or faster bullet will impart more shock, temporary cavitation, and a bigger permanent wound channel to facilitate bleeding out, and will have a better chance of penetrating deeply enough to at least make disrupting the central nervous system a possibility. Bottom line is that I think most people want a defense gun that has a pretty good chance of stopping a threat cold, quickly.

More powerful rounds have a better chance of doing that. That being said, I'd certainly rather have a 32 acp than a .22.
 
As someone posted earlier, it is probably just market demand. It seems that lately, the .380 is the caliber du jour.
 
Exactly, just no longer popular or practical for self defense. You have to remember that statistics are skewed. When there were no other calibers like there are now, people used what was available and popular. If there would have been mini 40's and 9's way back when, it's more than likely they would have used them instead of a 32It's not as if they chose the 32 over the 9mm or 40, 357, stc, it's more likely that it happened because they either weren't available, "calibers" or the guns themselves were too large "for concealment". The 32 can't be expected to compete with modern day ammo. The 327 mag works but never built up a large enough following, too many other calibers.
 
Simple answer? Unsurprisingly, it's seemingly simple market demand, or lack thereof (meaning there's no real demand or opportunity to sell guns and make money).

There's an ebb & flow to these things over time, though.

What once was popular may become popular again.

I'd not be surprised to see the venerable .32 ACP go through another cycle of popularity at some point, especially if marketing studies put together by the big gun companies were to suddenly indicate they could sell guns chambered in that caliber again.

Lack of attention improved defensive ammunition probably didn't help promote the caliber in previous years.

Increasing effort to meeting the demand for increasingly diminutive 9's & .40's, and now suddenly .380's (again), probably doesn't help free time, attention & production resources to making .32's that may, or may not, sell as well.

Excess play inside some .32 magazines (originally designed when ball ammo was the only .32 ammo available) could sometimes result in what became known as rimlock when some JHP loads were used. Remember when Seecamp introduced the use of spacers for his magazines so customers could use the older W-W STHP .32 ACP?

I've listened to how the venerable .32 has seemingly slowly fallen off the list of authorized calibers for some LE agencies as secondary/off-duty weapons. That's a respectable market segment to see fade.

The ballistic performance of the .32 ACP as a dedicated defensive caliber will remain a topic of considerable debate.

It's not within the realm of being considered a "service caliber" anymore, but it's still a cartridge that offers "more" utility than the .22 LR/Short or .25 ACP.

It also, obviously, still has a loyal following of private owners/shooters/collectors who enjoy the guns that have been chambered for it over the course of time, for whatever reasons suit them. ;)
 
If a new .32 gun was developed I would like to see one with a double stack magazine for a high round count rather than as thin as possible. I think many concealed carry guns are already as thin as it is possible to get without substantially sacrificing shootabilty. A double stack .32 roughly the size of a LCP but thicker and holding at least ten rounds or so of .32 instead of 6 380 rounds might actually have a market. A small double stack .32 could still be pretty thin and highly concealable with the added thickness and the lighter caliber making it noticeably easier to shoot well when compared to similar 380's. Shootabilty combined with higher capacity would be a good selling point. I don't really see that happening since "thin as possible at all costs" is "in" but I do think it would be a good idea, particularly if care was taken to make the gun an ergonomic fit to the average hand, rather than throwing a gun together with size as the number one consideration and ergonomics as a vague afterthought in the way most pocket pistols seem to be designed. One of the few exceptions to the "pocket pistol ergonomics stink" rule is the taurus pt 22 and 25 poly version. It isn't the thinnest or the smallest pocket pistol, but it is still plenty small enough and the fit in the hand is hard to beat in comparably sized pistols. I just wish there were more pocket pistols with those ergonomics or that that one came in a caliber a little stronger than 25 acp.
 
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