Why did Colt fade away?

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I think lack of advertising, and that Colt doesn't really seem to care about civilian sales.

I would rather buy a Colt 1911 than a Kimber, but I never see Colt advertised in magazines, and I hardly ever see them for sale at gun stores. I see kimber advertisements in every magazine, and most gun stores always have Kimbers in stock. It seems like Colt is not really pushing their 1911s and doesnt really care if they sell too many.
 
I am no Ruger fan but they are producing some interesting weapons. And unlike Smith, they seem to have a handle on quality control.
Sure they do, two major ongoing recalls(SR9/LCP)and a .45 auto so flawed(P345)that nobody will but them despite being available for $400.00 new! Topping that off with the release of a Rugerized Glock twenty-years after the fact is a lot of things, inovative not being one of them.....
 
I'm enjoying my XSE and new Delta Elite just fine. They may not be everyone's cup of tea, but work for me. As for innovation, the SAA does the same thing as the most technologically advanced handgun. A good first shot with either is generally all that is required for civilian purposes. It shoots a lead/copper based projectile out of the barrel in the direction pointed and traveling at the same speed as the newer weapon. Ain't much innovation in any firearm shooting self contained cartridges. Heck, even from a military standpoint, how much fighting is done with handguns? The police are also moving to carbines and semiauto shotguns. The biggest advantage for modern designs is better resistance to environmental fouling, which can be mighty important, but not often in home and self defense situations.
 
"Sure they do, two major ongoing recalls(SR9/LCP)and a .45 auto so flawed(P345)that nobody will but them despite being available for $400.00 new! Topping that off with the release of a Rugerized Glock twenty-years after the fact is a lot of things, inovative not being one of them...."

The way I see it is Ruger's just good at taking other people's designs and merging them into a gun at a fairly low price that appeals to some people. I can't think of much that they did that was ever truly innovative. And their quality control sucks.
 
I once read that an economic constant was that the price of an ounce of gold would purchase a Colt revolver, a fine suit of clothes, or... an ounce of gold.

As far as I have been able to see over the past 100+ years that this has pretty much been the truth.

So, Colts do not appear to be no more overpriced than they were in the past 100 years.

That said, I recently sold my SAA and bought three nice S&Ws with the proceeds.

What does this all mean? I have no clue excapt that I now have 3 fine firearms in my safe.

And, I'm hoping to get a 2011 centennial 1911..
 
thanks for your posts, I now know more about colt than ever before. I think i'm just upset they didn't continue to make the DS. Or offer a Colt DS classic.
 
Sure they do, two major ongoing recalls(SR9/LCP)

I should have qualified my statement.
I was thinking of the revolvers as I am not a fan whatsoever of their bottom-feeding brass-chuckers.

Every week I read about someone disappointed in their Smith revolver. The last 3 new ones that I touched had factory defects. (horrible yoke to frame fit and two barrels that needed resetting)

Such does not seem to be the case with SP101s and Redhawks. Not saying that it doesn't happen. Just not as often.
 
Colt marketing is just flummoxed.

In Connecticut, we have a Cabelas. It is literally just a few miles to where Colt makes guns, but there are hardly any Colts even in the showcase.

That is pathetic and sickening. Colt could easily work with the local sales counter over there, get some prominent position and market it but they don't do ****.

Also, I notice that SIG can't make enough P238's. pocket pistol sales are insatiable.

A P238 is a 1911. Colt used to make one, the mustang.

Why can't the tool up to sell to what the market wants? Are they really that inept?
 
but there are hardly any Colts even in the showcase...but there are hardly any Colts even in the showcase.

Why do that when you're already turning a profit and selling them as fast as you can get them to distributors?
 
"Why can't they tool up to sell to what the market wants?"

Colt doesn't have the money, for that or for advertising.

Most people don't realise that Colt, as a split corporate entity, is just not the Colt it used to be.
Back in the early 90s, when the biggest crash struck, they let a bundle of people go. They had little operating capital, none for an ad budget or marketing campaigns, almost none for product development.
People I'd been dealing with there were suddenly gone. It became hard to even get a phone call answered, much less returned.

It's been a very slow process, but Colt has been steadily coming back, with both personnel and manufacturing capability.
I was talking to a contact there yesterday, and with the new CNC machines acquired recently, there are both new options available and a more hopeful look for QC. They open the door to more flexibility.

There were many factors that led to where Colt is now, not the least of which was decades of Colt Corporate Arrogance on the part of senior management.
Since he stepped in, General Keys has accomplished quite a bit with what he inherited.

Until recently, Colt was still using antiquated machinery & processess, almost entirely because they had to. No money for upgrades.
About five years ago, serious money was spent on upgraded CNC machinery for the Defense side, since that's where the worldwide contracts were coming from.
On the Manufacturing (civilian) side, it was limping along.

Investment money has been problematical for quite some time. When it's limited, hard decisions have to be made about where it goes, and that obviously includes which areas will produce the biggest return.

Of the two greatest names in American handgunnery, Colt and S&W, Colt was hampered by a basic DA revolver design that required expensive hand-fitting and specialized service people. By the mid-90s, that design was simply pricing itself out of the market. Colt had begun to build more modern (cheaper) revolver types in the late 60s, but even into the early 2000s those were also not selling well enough to keep in production, concurrent with Colt's money situation.

Smith & Wesson, on the other hand, was fortunate in that their DA revolver design dating from the late 1890s (unlike Colt's) WAS adaptable to increasingly more efficient manufacturing technology, and could be kept competitive on the market right on down till today. S&W was never crippled by strikes, has been financially viable by & large, and managed to overcome spells of managerial incompetence (such as the Clinton Agreement) to continue on with new development and new products in a strong position in today's marketplace.

Colt is coming along. I was told yesterday that the current new 1911 railgun came along about the same time as the acquisition of new CNC equipment at Colt's Manufacturing as no coincidence. On the older equipment, it couldn't be done viably. Now it can.
It remains a slow process, though. Advertising? It'll probably stay low for the immediate future.
The Colt's Manufacturing Marketing Division, at the moment & for some time now, consists entirely of one guy.

It ALL comes down to money.
They're not "that inept", they're just tight on funding.

Denis
 
I was rooting through the bookcases at home last night because I knew I had a recent Colt catalog handy. It was right there. Somewhere. Dang.

I found it at last.

It was from 1990. :eek:
 
I was in the firearms indusrty for many years---what killed Colt was old tooling, BAD quality control (United Auto Workers union-big strike), really BAD management and poor new designs (remember their "Glock clone" the 9mm P2000?). And, of course, Glock pistols---guns that worked well right out of the box. Only lately are we seeing any signs of life at Colt.
 
The way I see it is Ruger's just good at taking other people's designs and merging them into a gun at a fairly low price that appeals to some people. I can't think of much that they did that was ever truly innovative.

Ummm, ever hear of the Mark I, II, III Series of pistols, or the 10-22 rifle? Only two of the best selling, original designs in history...
 
Ummm, ever hear of the Mark I, II, III Series of pistols, or the 10-22 rifle? Only two of the best selling, original designs in history...

Oh sure........muddy up the water with facts. :D
 
I just wish they (or SOMEBODY) would start making a decent line of double action revolvers again........without an internal lock.
Just think of the guns Colt has made in the past - the Python, the Diamondback, the Detective Special, the Trooper, the Woodsman, the Frontier Scout and a whole lot of others.
Dang, if they ever came out with those again , they would make a killing. I'm sure they would be expensive but I think people would pay it.
 
Those models using the older actions are not feasible in today's market.
A few people would pay the high prices, but not enough to bother re-development.
Colt has to go for volume, not high-priced niche guns.
They most certainly would not make a killing. :)

USFA currently owns the "Woodsman" trademark, for the one they have in development.
Colt can't legally re-introduce that one.

Basically, ANY model that required extensive hand fitting is too expensive for Colt to do.

The past is just that- the past.

Denis
 
Ummm, ever hear of the Mark I, II, III Series of pistols, or the 10-22 rifle? Only two of the best selling, original designs in history...

Oh you mean the Mark 1 series, which was made to look just like a baby nambu and just has a tubular receiver design that has a similar operation of a 22 semi rifle and is more complicated than most other designs? (especially takedown) Or the 10/22 that most people strip everything except the receiver to make a custom gun, that is still far less popular than the Marlin 60 and is still just a regular blowback semi-auto .22 (Thats about as innovative as building a rifle that has a slide). And those were two of Bill Rugers first designs, the most recent ones aren't even his and seem even less innovative.
 
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I think Colt really erred with the All American 2000. It was a late entry in the wondernine race, purchased from another designer and not fully tested (by all accounts) for the paltry sum of Colt's full auto collection. That really smacked of selling out 'history' to make a buck. It was a gamble that failed. There was a time that you could pick up a 2000 model in aluminum or ploymer for under $300. They are back way up over $500. Why?

Because in spite of their misteps Colt still has a mystique and a history that's interwoven with the very fabric of American culture of the past 150+ years.

Colt's gambled before... opting into a 'non-agression pact' with Winchester, taking the AR-15 to the civilian market (AR's were RARE at rifle ranges in the 70's-80's) and they never sold in large numbers until someone said 'we can't have those.' And by that time, EVERYONE was making AR's, now even SW & Ruger are in that game. Pre 1980 you'd be hard pressed to find a 1911 maker besides Colt. Sure there were Randalls and Detonics but they were made in small numbers. Now EVERYONE makes a 1911. Including S&W and Sig. Colt was late to get into 'rail' guns. The iColt seems like a boondoggle but it kept gov't money coming in the door and it kept them afloat. Colt sold off thier .380 carry gun market to Sig, at a time when there wasn't a lot of interest in .380 carry guns. Kel-Tec certainly re-vamped the interest in that niche. Colt stopped making DA revolvers and sold off a large chunk of their 'shop collection.' There have been rumors of new wheel guns, but that's all.

And yet they are still here.

I own a bunch of Colts. Some bought new, many used. I hope to buy more Colts, new and used as we approach the 200th anniversary of the company's founding. I'd like to see new designs from the storied maker, and I'd love to see a return of some older models, particularly the DS. They have weathered many a storm and I'm crossing my fingers and spending my money when I can on their wares. Because I don't want to see the 'institution' of Colt go the way of Indian Motorcycles and Lawn Darts.

Colt is making great stuff these days.
 
in my experience, in this space/time continuum, dead people are not very productive or innovative.

Your Mileage May Vary

(though if it does I am scared)

Yes but what I meant by that was the examples of Bill Ruger's designs used rather than current ones.
 
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