why do 180 gr .44mags kick more than 240gr?

[coosbaycreep]

I shot some 180gr remington factory ammo yesterday, and it had significantly more recoil and muzzle blast than any of the other .44 ammo I've shot so far.

I was shooting this out of a 5" 629, and the fireball was quite impressive. In dry weather, I could use the gun as a flame thrower with the blast from this thing if I can't hit what I'm aiming at.

I thought lighter grain bullets were suppose to have less recoil though? Other factory ammo I've shot is 240gr blazer, winchester SP, 210 speer gold dots, 240 and 180gr hornady XTPs, and 200 or 210 gr silvertips from winchester. I've shot 180 and 240gr handloads too, but all of those were on the light side, so it's only natural that they wouldn't kick as much.

Looking at the load data, all the 180s use more powder, but I still figured the heavier bullets would still have more recoil.

Neither of my guns seem to shoot good with any 180gr bullets either.

I've read on here that .357 with 110gr bullets have problems with flash cutting(?) or something due to higher velocity. Can light bullets in .44 mess something up as well?

Both of my .44s are just for plinking, although if I was going to use the 29 for SD, the 210gr speer gold dots seemed to do a helluva job on straight jacking up stumps and water jugs, and after shooting them into a creek, I noticed they mushroom better than any bullet I've ever seen too.

I picked up some 300gr XTPs today too, but haven't loaded or shot any yet.

Since both of my guns seem more accurate with 240gr, that's probably what I'll shoot most of the time, but right now I'm just experimenting and trying to find good loads, and I figured the lighter bullets would be better on an older gun.

So am I just imagining more recoil with 180gr remingtons? Is the lighter bullets better for anything, or is 240gr just a better weight for .44 mag?

I've also noticed that my 629 kicks considerably more than my 6.5" 29. I'm sure the 5" weighs less, but it fits my hands a lot better than the 29 does, and I figured it would be easier to control because of it, but it jumps around quite a bit. Other than the recoil and a slightly heavier trigger, I think the 629 is superior to my 29 in every way though.

thanks

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Lighter bullets don't actually recoil harder, but they feel that way sometimes. It's due to the old "for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. A lighter bullet leaves the bore faster, therefore, recoil will be faster. (More sharp, or abrupt feeling) A heavier bullet's recoil will actually push back harder, but it is spread out over a longer dwell time, making it feel lighter.

There was a huge thread on this over on The Firing Line a few months ago. Everyone and his mathematical, formula showed up to explian why. The above reason is accurate, albeit somewhat abridged to cut down on monotinous reading.

 

[SaxonPig]

Newton's Third Law holds that for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Therefore, it's not possible for a 180 grain bullet to generate more recoil than a 240 grain bullet unless the 180 was loaded to multiple velocity factors.

I agree that you are perceiving a more violent recoil, perhaps due to muzzle flash or report.

 

[sargenv]

What everyone here is saying but also since it can be loaded with more powder, what you may be feeling is the gas pressure nnot completely burning up and the excess powder burning as it exits the barrel and cylinder. What would likely be better burned up with a heavier bullet and slightly lighter charge of powder due to the heavier bullet. I experienced the same thing with 125 gr 357 loads as opposed to the heavier 158 gr fodder.

 

[ArmedBear]

Yeah. The only way to really find out is to try handloads.

I've loaded .44 cases so weak that the cases didn't even expand. Fell out of the single action without ejecting them, like they were unfired. Got fouling all over the back of the frame, too. Those didn't recoil much.

Then I've loaded some hot ones. They did recoil.

Factory ammo is not all created equal. There's practice ammo, hunting ammo, defensive ammo, etc.

Chances are, the 180s are going a good deal faster than the 240s. This could make the recoil feel "snappier", especially in a gun that doesn't have a particularly long barrel.

 

[patsue]

I remember when I bought my first 44 magnum, a 6 1/2 inch 629 Classic. The first loads I shot in it were 180 grain Federal loads. I thought after the first shot I had made a big mistake, they were brutal.

The 240 grn. American Eagle loads are almost as bad to me but not as bad. They must have been really hot loads.

I reload my own now. Light loads are 9.3 grains of Unique under a 240 SWC. My heavy deer hunting load is 22 grains of 2400 under a 240 Hornady Hollowpoint.

Niether one is even close to those 180 grainers.

Patrick

 

[Gordon]

A little known ballistic fact is just how fast Rem and Federal 180 grain .44 mag loads are. I chronographed these loads 15 years ago at about 1450fps from a 4" Model 29, 1600Fps+ from a 7.5 Ruger SBH and 1750 fps from a 10" TC Contender. They did over 2000 FPS from a 20" Browning 92. That is down right smoking folks.
I think reality will set in aboout what the .44 mag is when you fire those 300 grainers though.

 

[shooter429]

Fpf to fps, they don't

But a 180 grain that is full velocity versus a medium velocity 240 will. Also, the "hardness" of recoil is more than just the actual amount of energy transferred to the shooter. Recoil velocity, muzzle blast and flash, side spitting and a whole host of other variables make up the "recoil" experience. I can give you some heavy bullet .44 loads that will leave no doubt in your mind that the 180s are pussycats in comparison, but the grips, shooter anticipation etc. all also play a roll. The Remington 180s I have fired felt like full-tilt loads, so they will buck, but like others said the flash is what is most impressive, IMHO.

Keep shooting a few at a time until you get used to them. I grew to love em.

Shooter429

 

[1911Tuner]

Ah! Physics again.

First...

An internal ballistic event is no more than an action/reaction event within a closed system. It occurs because a compelling force is imposed between two objects...the bullet and the breechblock. That force is generated by the pressure and heat that comes from rapidly expanding gasses.

The force drives the bullet away from the breechblock, and that same force drives the breechblock away from the bullet.

Action...equal/opposite reaction.

Objects at rest tend to remain at rest, and the faster you try to accelerate an object to X velocity in Y distance...the harder it "fights" to stand still. Lifting a 10 pound weight at a rate of one foot per second requires much less force than lifting that same object at the rate of 10 feet per second.

Force forward equals force backward. Whatever level of force is imposed in one direction will be imposed in the opposite direction...in equal magnitude.

Force forward equals force backward. Let it sink in.

If you accelerate the two bullets at the same RATE...or to a given speed in a given unit of distance... the heavier bullet will generate more recoil.

If the lighter bullet requires more force to accelerate it to 1600 fps than the heavier one requires to accelerate it to 1200 fps...the lighter bullet will generate more recoil.

Because...

Force forward equals force backward.

While it's related to muzzle velocity, it's more dependent on the rate of acceleration and the force required to achieve it.

 

[buck460XVR]

Remmie 180s are notoriously hot..............

 

[James T Thomas]

scientific obfuscation

Should "Gordon:" #7 post, be correct about the higher velocity.

Then the force of recoil is: F= m x a.
You do have a slightly greater mass in the heavier bullet, but your acceleration for the lighter bullet is significantly greater.

And the product; multiplication for the lighter bullet is a greater number than the number derived for the heavier bullet; lower velocity and less acceleration.

The impulse "felt" for the heavier bullet is more of a push than the sharper or abrupt feel of the lighter bullet. -The lighter bullet producing it's recoil over a shorter fraction of a second.

 

[GP100man]

the liter 180 bullet has faster burning powder than the 240 loads .
seems i pulled bullets & found 2 different powders.
for my 44 heavies i use imr 4227 because precieved recoil is less than others .


GP100man