Why Double Ought?

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because...

-one 2-3/4" shell delivers roughly the power of a ten-round burst from a 9mm submachine gun
-the pellets stack neatly, which means it generally has a tighter pattern - especially at close range. This is good because it ensures that you can hit what you're aiming at with pretty much all nine shots within reasonable ranges
-easy to find/very popular; everyone uses it around me
-good penetration, but not so good that it'll fly through everything

with other loads, you get more of one thing and lose more from another, but the 00 loads are a very good balance when it comes to taking out anything up to about 300-400 lbs or less.
 
Because that's what Uncle Sam told me to use and what is good enough for the USMC is good enough for me. Really it is the standard military round and they will not let me have those new rounds that penetrate and explode. :what:
 
huntsman said:
wound ballistics #4 buck
http://www.firearmstactical.com/imag...20Buckshot.jpg
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That chart is in centimeters. Translate to a median penetration of 7" with a rough range of 5 to 10". Generally, 12" is considered adequate. Multiple wound cavities will certainly result in a nasty permanent wound that will bleed out, but that may take 5 minutes or longer. Heck, even a 22lr penetrated over 14" in the same test.
 
tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs
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No. 4 Buck has been tested and will penetrate 12" in ballistics gelatin, that is a through-and-through assuming that no bones are hit, and with 41 pellets I would bet on one sneaking through. I use No. 1 for the extra little push, at the cost of more pellets, it has the largest cumulative wound channel with any buckshot.

From the same site linked by huntsman...
Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound traum
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No. 4 Buck has been tested and will penetrate 12" in ballistics gelatin, that is a through-and-through assuming that no bones are hit, and with 41 pellets I would bet on one sneaking through. I use No. 1 for the extra little push, at the cost of more pellets, it has the largest cumulative wound channel with any buckshot.
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From what I've seen #4 buck looks pathetic against bone, heavy clothing and oftentimes targets that are getting a little out there but still within effective range of the other other buckshot sizes. I once shot up a bunch of empty plastic gallon milk jugs at less than 20 yards with several brands of #4 buck and was shocked to find that often a pellet or sometimes even two out of each load would be sitting in the bottom of a jug because it didn't have the juice to get all the way through.

To me #4 buck is more like big, expensive birdshot than proper buckshot.
 
Maverick223 said:
No. 4 Buck has been tested and will penetrate 12" in ballistics gelatin...
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I don't mean to burst any proverbial bubbles here, I'm just stating the facts. Sorry, folks, if I have statistcs, science, anecdotes, and test results on my side here, but:

No.4 Buck is certainly capable of penetrating 12" of bare geletin. Why, one out of 27 pellets in the aforementioned test actually made it to 27cm (that's 10.6 inches, DUDE). That is an AVERAGE of 7 inches. The law of probability says that one out of, say, 5 or 6 shells should therefore be able to MAKE IT to 12" and possibly poke a clean hole in fatty tissue. Just making it in bare geletin isn't going to destroy anything.

But that's not through and through. That isn't vital organ damage. Vital organs are behind bones. Heart, Lungs, Brain, Spine/Nerves. Only "0"s and above need apply.

I'm not saying that #4 buck won't kill you, but your target is at close range when they are shot. You are ONLY shooting them because they present a mortal threat to you, therefore they're close and engaging in activity you want to stop. What you WANT in this case is a near guarantee of through-and-through penetration, sternum to spine, of multiple large projectiles. That will generally STOP your attacker. Only "0"'s are going to do that on a predictable basis.

Please, somebody try to explain away the science of this one? Are you 'hoping' that that single pellet from one out of five shells might be the that slips THROUGH the ribs and doesn't strike any connective tissue on the way and still actually pokes one or two holes in the heart? No thanks.
 
I can’t help but wonder how quality affects buckshot loads.

There seems to be a lot of cheap buckshot sold.

When you price it out bulk Remington buck is $2.00LB while Hornady is $5.00LB I’d bet you’re not even getting decent lead with cheap buck, and no shotcup or wrap. Maybe it doesn’t matter or maybe it does
 
I'm not saying that #4 buck won't kill you
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That is all I am saying, No. 4 is a backup shot for me (as is 00 and slugs, and birdshot if it comes down to it). I will stand behind my choice to use No. 1 (24 .30 caliber projectiles). And .30 cal balls have a tendency to crush bones or whatever else is in the way. At close range there is not much difference between No. 1 and 00 buckshot, and for longer shots a 300WM will do the trick.

I can’t help but wonder how quality affects buckshot loads.
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Cheap is just as good as long as it has a shot cup and buffer, and will fire every time. The cup and buffer prevent pellet deformation and promote effective penetration.
 
And .30 cal balls have a tendency to crush bones or whatever else is in the way.
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You're saying .30 caliber balls like somebody is shooting a .30 carbine... that's not the case. These pellets weigh 40gr each. Sure, there's lots of them, but they have no more energy than a .22lr individually. Penetration is not based on the load of shot, each pellet is treated individually.

There is nothing magical about #1 buck or 00 buck, it's simple physics. #1 buckshot is twice as heavy as #4 so should penetrate more. 00 buck, on the other hand, is only a third heavier than #1.
 
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You're saying .30 caliber balls like somebody is shooting a .30 carbine... that's not the case. These pellets weigh 40gr each. Sure, there's lots of them, but they have no more energy than a .22lr individually. Penetration is not based on the load of shot, each pellet is treated individually.

There is nothing magical about #1 buck or 00 buck, it's simple physics. #1 buckshot is twice as heavy as #4 so should penetrate more. 00 buck, on the other hand, is only a third heavier than #1.
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Surprisingly considering the weight and energy difference there doesn't to be all that much of a performance difference that I can tell between a #1 and 00 pellet of like construction, at least not within the first 15-20 yards or so.

Where you end up paying though is in recoil, since with a typical 16 pellet 2.75" #1 buck you're thowing basically the same amount of lead less than a 100 fps slower than a 12 pellet 2.75" 00 magnum load.
 
You're saying .30 caliber balls like somebody is shooting a .30 carbine... that's not the case. These pellets weigh 40gr each. Sure, there's lots of them, but they have no more energy than a .22lr individually. Penetration is not based on the load of shot, each pellet is treated individually.
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You are right, I did make it seem a bit more capable than it actually is. But it is fairly true with respect to any thin skinned game that could enter a house, at least at 5-10yds. :D For hunting purposes I use 00, or preferably a rifle.
 
We use Double Ought because it sounds good. It's fun to say; Double Ought Buck Shot. Triple Ought has a similar rhyme and cadence, but it's not the same. Everybody knows that D's and B's are much harder than T's And P's, and when it comes to manly subjects like home defense, harder will always be better. Besides, T's and P's are used to describe toilet paper, which, while of significant importance, has little bearing on home defense.

Single Ought just sounds lonely, and is therefore inferior (It's always good to have a partner, even if it's just another zero.)
 
"...makes so many advocate 00?..." It sounds mean. Buck shot, on game, past 20 yards is mostly useless. Not enough pellets for a clean kill on game.
"...See a trend?..." A 3" mag load of #4 Buck has 41 6mm pellets and it's not accurate enough to hunt anything.
"...9 roughly .35 caliber pellets is a pretty potent package..." .33" and not accurate enough.
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I found buckshot to be fairly accurate when shooting it at the police range. I could keep all 9 pellets in a silhouette target at 25 yards.

And "game" can have a pretty varied meaning. If my "game" is bear then I agree with you, but if its coyotes I would say 00 is a decent choice out to probably around 40 yards.
 
Well, every shot from a shotgun is like using a submachinegun. You are spitting a number of rounds out like a burst from a subgun.

Why use the equivalent of a burst from a .22?

00 is like a full auto burst of .32 S&W. (Doesn't sound all that bad when thought of as one bullet). 9-12 of those will put the hurtin' on you.

That's why it's popular.

Might 000 make a better shell? Possibly (actually I think it's just as good or better), but then you have a shorter "burst."

Why mess with a good thing?
 
-one 2-3/4" shell delivers roughly the power of a ten-round burst from a 9mm submachine gun
Click to expand...

This is a common misconception. Not even close, sorry. Each of those 9mm bullets, if FMJ, would penetrate about 40". 00 buckshot at close range penetrates about 22". That's close to 100% more power per each pellet/bullet. If you were using expanding rounds, the destructive power of those 10 rounds would be considerably greater than a single round of buck.

John
 
balance is the reason i believe however everyone is talking about defense well in that situation I don't really believe it matters even number 8s will stop someone real fast
 
You know, anything is possible- but this is likely only when the target is so close the wad itself would probably work.

John
 
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