powerhouse
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Why hasn't anyone made a .22 magnum using an elongated .22lr case? It seems having a rifle/revolver able to shoot both .22LR and a magnum variant would be desirable.
Why has no one made a .22lr Magnum? (not .22WMR)
- Thread starter powerhouse
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I agree, but I can think of one reason. It might be impractical to make a jacketed bullet that could be crimped into a .22LR case, being the bullet and case OD are the same? Or maybe once they break the sound barrier, bullets with the funky .22 LR base might be unstable?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It's really a miracle that such an outdated design as the .22LR works as well as it does. Sorry but the heeled bullet design is at its limit with the .22LR. Swaged lead bullets simply cannot be driven to .22Mag velocities without leading and the design is not compatible with gas checks.
"You can't get there from here."
"You can't get there from here."
Actually, since .22LR chambers are bored straight through, an elongated "Magnum" version would certainly chamber into nearly any .22LR revolver. Not a huge deal in a modern .22LR because it and the .22Mag operate at the same pressure but could be nasty if it found its way into a 100yr old gun.
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Float Pilot
Member
The did!
CCI Stingers are a lengthened 22lr case with a shorter and lighter bullet.
Around 1880 there was a cartridge called the 22 Extra Long. It was a black powder cartridge and had a case slightly longer than the later developed 22 long Rifle. It was a big step up from the 22 short and 22 long... Which were also only black powder.
In 1887 the Stevens Arms Co. developed the .22 Long Rifle cartridge. They hit pay-dirt....
And of course you had other attempts to make something with a little more zip than a 22LR in the past.
The 22 Winchester Rimfire comes to mind. It was developed around 1890 for the Winchester 1890 pump. Remington copied it and called it the 22 Remington Special.
The WRF fires a 45 grain, copper-plated bullet at a velocity of 1,320 fps and 175 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle of a 22" rifle barrel. For 1890 is was pretty hot stuff. Oddly enough they will usually fire in rifles chambered for 22 magnum.
There was also the 22 Winchester Auto and the Remington 22 Auto.. They were both developed around 1903 or 1905... I think,,, They were smokeless powder cartridges when most 22 LRs were still black powder. Plus they used inside lubed bullets of a more modern design.
They are both neat little cartridges, although they will not interchange. Both have pretty much disappeared since the constant updating and supercharging of the 22 LR has made them obsolete.
CCI Stingers are a lengthened 22lr case with a shorter and lighter bullet.
Around 1880 there was a cartridge called the 22 Extra Long. It was a black powder cartridge and had a case slightly longer than the later developed 22 long Rifle. It was a big step up from the 22 short and 22 long... Which were also only black powder.
In 1887 the Stevens Arms Co. developed the .22 Long Rifle cartridge. They hit pay-dirt....
And of course you had other attempts to make something with a little more zip than a 22LR in the past.
The 22 Winchester Rimfire comes to mind. It was developed around 1890 for the Winchester 1890 pump. Remington copied it and called it the 22 Remington Special.
The WRF fires a 45 grain, copper-plated bullet at a velocity of 1,320 fps and 175 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle of a 22" rifle barrel. For 1890 is was pretty hot stuff. Oddly enough they will usually fire in rifles chambered for 22 magnum.
There was also the 22 Winchester Auto and the Remington 22 Auto.. They were both developed around 1903 or 1905... I think,,, They were smokeless powder cartridges when most 22 LRs were still black powder. Plus they used inside lubed bullets of a more modern design.
They are both neat little cartridges, although they will not interchange. Both have pretty much disappeared since the constant updating and supercharging of the 22 LR has made them obsolete.
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Col. Plink
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So do stingers load and cycle in any .22lr? I gotsta know!
Deus Machina
Member
Any but tight match-spec chambers. They're the same overall length but the case is longer.
I think the heel may cause more instability moving in and out of supersonic range, than a simple flat- or boat-tailed bullet.
Mostly, I'm betting it's a cost thing. A heeled design can be made jacketed but gas checks would be ineffective, and look at the price of .22 WMR as it is. Then tack on the extra for a new case, and the cost of the machines, time, and material for the extra two-to-five steps it would take to force a heel into a jacketed bullet.
As it stands, if you want magnum you're stuck going with one of the ultra-velocity rounds.
I think the heel may cause more instability moving in and out of supersonic range, than a simple flat- or boat-tailed bullet.
Mostly, I'm betting it's a cost thing. A heeled design can be made jacketed but gas checks would be ineffective, and look at the price of .22 WMR as it is. Then tack on the extra for a new case, and the cost of the machines, time, and material for the extra two-to-five steps it would take to force a heel into a jacketed bullet.
As it stands, if you want magnum you're stuck going with one of the ultra-velocity rounds.
mljdeckard
Member
If they did it now, they would be "That cartridge that's just as long as a .22 mag but less powerful due to diminished case capacity."
NCsmitty
Member
There are a few different types of 22LR that are basically "magnum" versions of 22 rimfire without the actual name.
CCI has their Velocitor, and Stinger and Remington has the Yellow Jacket and Viper, Aguila has their Super Maximum.
All of these exceed the high velocity versions made by most all manufacturer's of 22 rimfire.
The Velocitor with a 40gr HP will pretty much match advertised velocity and is a good bet for hunting.
I have not chronographed the Stinger yet, but they are priced about the same as the Velocitor.
NCsmitty
CCI has their Velocitor, and Stinger and Remington has the Yellow Jacket and Viper, Aguila has their Super Maximum.
All of these exceed the high velocity versions made by most all manufacturer's of 22 rimfire.
The Velocitor with a 40gr HP will pretty much match advertised velocity and is a good bet for hunting.
I have not chronographed the Stinger yet, but they are priced about the same as the Velocitor.
NCsmitty
bigfatdave
Member
Most, buy a box and try it out.
.22LR is the magnum round, pushing the heeled bullet and straight-walled rimfire case to the limit. Stingers are a further refinement, those and other high-end hunting rounds are about the pinnacle of the .22lr family of cartridges.
.22short and .22long are developments from the Flobert round, while .22wmr and .22wrf are from another parent case, which at one time was competing for the ammo market before .22lr became the standard.
The "why aren't there hotter loads for my .22lr gun" topic (and the "can I shoot .22lr in this here .22wrf/wmr gun?" topic) comes up pretty frequently, as usual I'll direct curious readers to these two articles for the history and background on the two families of rimfire cartridges:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_WMR
Read those and the related articles, they will answer most questions. As far as development goes, write CCI or your favorite manufacturer and ask them, even handloaders aren't making souped-up rimfire, the cases can't be primed easily, the bullets don't pull easily, and rimfire seems to be pretty much a factory thing because of it.
And I admit it, I have a hankering for a more powerful rimfire gun, it is why I put a KT PMR-30 on order, and why I have a revolver in .22wmr (Winchester Magnum Rimfire), next I'll be looking for a long-gun in that loading. I gave up on the pipe dream of WMR power in a gun that can also shoot cheap bulk .22lr from WM.
Jim Watson
Member
As Float Pilot says, they did, the .22 Extra Long.
The Long Rifle was Stevens' load of the 40 grain Extra Long bullet in the Long case.
Elmer Keith said the .22 WRM was ok but he would have rather seen the .25 Stevens Long brought back after WW II and souped up a bit.
The Long Rifle was Stevens' load of the 40 grain Extra Long bullet in the Long case.
Elmer Keith said the .22 WRM was ok but he would have rather seen the .25 Stevens Long brought back after WW II and souped up a bit.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Folks complain enough about the price of .22Mag compared to .22LR. Even though it is vastly more effective on game. It was never meant to be a cheap plinker. A lengthened .22LR with an improved bullet design will be even more expensive.
Float Pilot
Member
The 25 Stevens was originally a black powder round as well but they made smokeless ammo up until WWII. It fired a 60 or 65 grain 25 caliber bullet at around 1,180 or something like that. I used to have a Stevens Crack-Shot rifle and a couple boxes of 1930s ear ammo, but I never fired it and it went to a new owner one day when times were tough. (evil ex-wife)
Personally I could never figure out why the 5mm Remington rimfire magnum was not a bigger hit. Back around 1970 I had saved up a bunch of money to buy one when they first came out. But my dad blocked the deal, saying that a $29 Ithaca 22 from Sears would be just fine. So it could go with my cheap used Sears bolt action .410 shotgun I guess...
The 5mm Mag fired a 38 grain , 20 caliber, bullet at around 2,100 fps... Or at least that is what they claimed.
It was better at 100 yards than the 22 Mag or the 17 Mag. Go figure...
powerhouse:
Ya always gotta go a tinkerin', don't cha?!
Join the crowd.
A few years back, I pondered why someone doesn't develop a .22LR centerfire that can be reloaded. <<pause>> Ya know them kids what was called ADHD back in their school days, seems we all just grew-up to become tinkerers. Well, over-active minds have to be kept busy, right? Tinker away, friend, tinker away.
Meanwhile, I'm off to test a better mouse trap. Of course, I intend to change the name of the product to the "Rodent Assistive Suicide Device".
Geno
Ya always gotta go a tinkerin', don't cha?!
Join the crowd. A few years back, I pondered why someone doesn't develop a .22LR centerfire that can be reloaded. <<pause>> Ya know them kids what was called ADHD back in their school days, seems we all just grew-up to become tinkerers. Well, over-active minds have to be kept busy, right? Tinker away, friend, tinker away.
Meanwhile, I'm off to test a better mouse trap. Of course, I intend to change the name of the product to the "Rodent Assistive Suicide Device".
Geno
Jim Watson
Member
They did.
There was an European .22 centerfire meant for .22 conversions of centerfires without having to bore barrels offcenter or make up firing pin offsets. Probably Berdan primed but that wouldn't bother a dedicated tinker.
The .22 CCM (Cooper Centerfire Magnum) fits the .22 WRM chamber but is centerfire and reloadable. Didn't last, though. Rimfires are cheap and Hornets were well known.
Vern Humphrey
Member
They did, back in the 1890s. It was called the .22 Winchester Central Fire (WCF). The .22 WCF was a black powder cartridge. The smokeless powder version was developed by experimenters in the 1920s and adopted by Winchester around 1930 as the .22 Hornet.
BrocLuno
Member
Aguila makes .22 that will pull something like 1600 FPS out of .22LR size cases. That's magnum enough unless you step all the way to .22WMR which are a stouter yet. 22 Hornet next up, the 22-250. By that time you are past 3000 FPS. What are you looking for? Aguila's fit in any standard .22 LR rifle or hand gun
5.7x28MM
The 5.7X28MM fits between the 22 WMR and 22 Hornet . The centerfire case is 1.135 inches long . It is a .224 inch diameter bullet round . Its a modern design case with the volicity a bit less with the 40 Gr bullet than the 22 Hornet. -- A longer 22 RF round would require a stronger and longer action to increase bullet velocity . Because of the 22 LR RF bullet type It could not compet with the modern jacketed bullets in the 22 WMR.
The 5.7X28MM fits between the 22 WMR and 22 Hornet . The centerfire case is 1.135 inches long . It is a .224 inch diameter bullet round . Its a modern design case with the volicity a bit less with the 40 Gr bullet than the 22 Hornet. -- A longer 22 RF round would require a stronger and longer action to increase bullet velocity . Because of the 22 LR RF bullet type It could not compet with the modern jacketed bullets in the 22 WMR.
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